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Build 1233 - Builders and Archers

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. SirCharizard

    SirCharizard Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    42
    Get off my lawn! :archer:
     
    Dargona1018 and norill like this.
  2. The-Cub

    The-Cub I'm actually Blue_Tiger

    Messages:
    48
    RIP my PC.

    At first, I was going to scream about this over the replies of this thread, but I thought I should at least give it a game (or until there is a billion things on the battle field and nothing is decaying so my PC explodes, see above).

    I feel like this is a bit pointless and is a huge change which makes me want to cry. I don't hate change, but only if there is a point to it, and there isn't much point to this. At close range, I'm pretty sure that the shotgun doesn't hit multiple shots very often due to the inaccuracy, meaning that hitting a knight cannot stun them and then hit them to deal hearts. This means that a knight is pretty safe against a single archer with his shield up and doing naught (even at close range). However, as soon as he puts his shield down, he's toast - it takes 0 skill to hit one arrow at a knight so long as you have it charged so you're way too safe now.

    Vs. archers is similar, you both just spam your shotgun with an almost 100% hit rate with minimal skill required since it just goes everywhere at once. It makes archer battles really really luck based, or rather whoever shoots first wins.

    I guess the point of it is to reduce the number of camping nubs just spamming their Legolas down - but to be honest, I've found Legolas to be rather pointless at long range. Sure, you can spam some shots to make it harder to dodge, but the inaccuracy can be really irritating and make the game feel so much more luck based. However, the shotgun actually makes creating undodgable arrows easier since rather than each firing one after the other, they all fire at once, surrounding the target.

    I barely play knight, but having a 2 archer vs 1 knight already seemed annoying when one was on each side. It seems like as soon as he looks one way, he gets shot from the other - however with this, you can actually just shotgun their back - previously, they'd be able to notice by the second or third arrow and turn but now, they all just go at once so what the heck. Also, you can much more easily take out a knight with both archers being on one side, one breaks the shield, the other shotguns - previously, you'd need some solid teamwork to get all 3 arrows in on one stun.

    Long story short, I prefer Legolas over shotgun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  3. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    Yes, but not a lot. I think it's more about dinghies, and few other stuff, but more importantly materials, I think? Anyways, these are not very performance-hungry so it shouldn't be a large problem.
     
  4. Medieval

    Medieval Haxor

    Messages:
    95
    The-Cub is right.
    And there is as much (maybe MORE) archers-campers as before. And now there is archers spamming arrows. Great.

    Also, 50 gold to build a single tranposrt tunnel is way too expansive: 10, 15 gold would be enough
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  5. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    !vote 30
     
  6. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I really like the new archer changes I just think that there needs to be a way to counter how effective they are at close range
     
  7. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    I found the arrow spam slightly irritating but the amount of arrows was high only because number of archer players was high. I'd say the class balance is pretty spot-on right now though. You can do outstanding plays and fend your own as an archer just as you can do as a knight, the playstyles just heavily differ and archer gets kills at a slower rate. Good archers can stomp average knights and good knights can stomp average archers. Good knight vs good archer comes down to items, movement and timing. Only thing I'd change at this point is to allow knights to shield immediatly if they score a slash to reduce the window of vulnerability. You should be rewarded for scoring a hit.

    An all-archer team is going to have weaker offense than a team with a good composure of classes. An all-knight team will have harder time pushing past well-made obstructions if there are no archers with bomb arrows. Archers will also have easy time picking off builders from the all-knight team because they aren't pressured by enemy archers. The classes also really compliment each other in cqc now. Wish I had recorded myself and malfunction at the bottom of their tower, rekking everyone who would fall down with chain stuns.

    Damn, the game should've been like this at release. Knight _was_ OP and I'm sure a lot of people quit because of that.
     
    norill, Kabouter123, Noburu and 6 others like this.
  8. PanduhsFTW

    PanduhsFTW Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    77
    If you could make the Frisson 'f' so I can type it in the clan tag slot without having to edit files to get it in, that'd be super cool. :3
     
  9. The-Cub

    The-Cub I'm actually Blue_Tiger

    Messages:
    48
    I found out the trick to playing guys!

    1. Carry hearts everywhere! As soon as a shotgun hits you, just give yourself the heart, and spam some more shotguns at your archer foes.

    2. Timing - Previously, playing archer was mostly about aiming where your opponant was going to go and less about timing - now, I find most fights happen where two archers are both hidden and then jump up and spam - remember to go just before you think they will go :wink:.

    Also, don't chase other archers who carry a heart - I can get chased by 3 archers at once, but I can just spam behind myself and hit all 3.

    I'm not saying because I think I'm good at this whole shotgun deal, I'm just getting a little bored of others playing like they normally would and getting destroyed.

    P.S.
    [​IMG]
    This is the single best I've ever played :P.
     
    Aurora- likes this.
  10. Leo

    Leo Haxor

    Messages:
    503
    Great.. I was hoping for a change in the opposite direction, things to go away faster, and we go in the other side. This means even worst lag for clients. Wait and see.
     
    Fuzzle and The-Cub like this.
  11. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    Hearts are dieing automaticly, but i think their decay got lowered too

    Which is not really good in fact because archer skills should mainly be about aiming skills

    @MadRaccoon noob ratio
     
  12. The-Cub

    The-Cub I'm actually Blue_Tiger

    Messages:
    48
    Yes, but with the amount of enemies you kill, you're constantly getting new hearts :P.
     
  13. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    WOOOOW
    [​IMG]
     
    Bint likes this.
  14. White_Rock

    White_Rock Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    3
    Yeah, don't like the Legolas fix. The shotgun is a nice spike to any dummy knight without his shield up, but it seems much harder to get a shield stun...

    The nice thing about the old legolas was using the first arrow to stun the knight then get two free hits in if he was door camping for example. Also it gave you control when you wanted to release the arrows, so you could fire one, hold onto it for a second and then fire the rest. I've been playing around with the archer for about half an hour and so far the best strategy for the new designed is to just spam the air as much as possible (since it harder to aim individual arrows, firing in the general direction without a care is just as valid). Ocasionally getting three arrows on a dummy IS a very nice feeling, but most smart knights keep their shields up and it seems to block all three shots? I dunno, i need more time to test it out.

    My main concern is that it dumbs down the archer, giving less control of where the arrow goes and when to fire each arrow, and not providing a nice reliable stun with two follow-up shots (i THINK, still has to test this as i said). It also.. feels less cool? The quick *Twock twock twock* sound effect of three arrows firing was very satisfying.

    Other changes seem fine. Like the repair one.
     
    Fuzzle likes this.
  15. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I absolutely love the changes now that I got to test them out more. I'm a very offensive player so playing archer was hard for me before because I'd always die without doing much damage. Now that I have a shotgun shot I can be way more aggressive and effective! I think this was a wonderful balance update! There are only a few things that need to be fixed and I'd be fine with the game.

    1) Shooting special arrows wont let me get back to normal arrows after I'm out of special arrows
    2) Make the builder a little stronger and all classes seem very balanced.

    I think a lot of the people that don't like the archer changes probably camped a lot and played archer defensively, but with the new changes you'll have to play a lot more aggressively which I like because it keeps the game even more fast paced!

    WONDERFUL JOB DEVS!!!!
     
  16. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    i dont like what it has done to the archer class but i suppose it is necassary to speed up matches with arrow ladders
     
  17. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,325
    I specially like some map changes in this build, and new maps are always welcome now that we know the common flaws.

    Regarding the teleporters, imho 50 gold it's a bit too much. As it's quite expensive, though there's now some more gold at the maps to gather, teleporters now should be built in a very secure room, and you can't always have such possibility. Teleporters were an illness recently, but now it looks a bit too excessive, (always, in comparision to the last builds we're used to, let's see how this works in a week). I'd make them a bit more resilient and cost less gold; or perhaps be given a small amount of gold at your tent every certain time.

    What looks interesting about it is that using a teleporter requires some more brains now, building and defending one at the front is more dramatic.
     
  18. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    I have no complaints for anythuing in this build, but I was hoping for elaboration on "A lot of stuff"?

    Also, the build looks really solid on paper. Let's hope it plays out that way.


    Edit: I'm seeing a lot of postsaddressing changes not in the changelog??

    Yeah, why would you alter the cost of tunnels? They were fine. 50 gold on maps that have almost no gold is ridiculously inflated and stupid. They shouldn't cost any gold at all. If you have a problem with tunnel spam, I don't see why, especially now that the enemy can use them as well as yourself.

    Edit2: To clarify, Tunnels are stalemate enders. When you get desperate, tunneling under a base and putting a tunnel down becomes the most efficient way to break into a base. Now that tunnels cost gold, which, even if you increased the amount of gold on maps a bit, is still very finite, this means that once the gold has run out, you have no stalemate ending item like a tunnel. They are essential for forward bases and I do not like this change one bit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  19. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    If they cost 50 gold as in resources that's too much! Make them cost 50 coins and that will still prevent tunnel spam
     
  20. The-Cub

    The-Cub I'm actually Blue_Tiger

    Messages:
    48
    Just wanted to let you know, I'm a player who rarely camps, but with all the sky shotgun spam, large servers require you to camp or just have endless raining arrows come from the sky killing you.