Comments on Profile Post by butterscotch

Im not condemning a culture my values just dont fit well with them. I dont care much what someone does to their own body with their own choice but in america we have religious freedom and making the decision to take off a piece of your child at birth does not fit well with me.

In my book anyone who tries to argue that it is ok to do this isnt much better than the islamist who try to argue that it was ok for their prophet to commit pedophilia. I dont need to know about every book to have an opinion on something that isnt about scripture.

It actually IS about scripture though. In the old testament God told the Jews to circumcise their children to set them apart from everyone else. You also know that it's actually just the foreskin, right? It's hardly like cutting off your finger.

Until you're old enough to make your own decisions, parents make them for you - that's how it's always been.

So it is ACTUALLY a religious issue, not a personal issue. So (I don't know whether or not you realize this), by saying that the practice of something is stupid, you're actually insulting not just the people that disagree with you, but the religion itself.

I don't think that circumcision is a good thing, myself. But it's not my place to bad mouth people that do.

I do know it is just the foreskin. DId you know fgm was just the clittoris it is hardly a finger(see the stupidity in that statement). I dont care how old you are no one should be allowed to make the decision to jcut off a functioning part of your body but yourself. Frankly it is a personal issue, when i got circumcised and i didnt even get a say in it.

I dont care how offensive i am towards people if i say that homophobia is a stupid thing am i being offensive towards christians? If so then ill take that risk because im defended a group's rights(in the context of equal rights). Im not even trying to have the arguement that religion is wrong atm, im just trying to make it 100% clear my stance in a 1st world is to not cut off a piece of your baby.

In hindsight it was a very stupid statement, I can't argue that it wasn't.
The foreskin actually ISN'T functioning part of the body, it has no purpose other than a very little bit of protection (even arguing that is a bit much).

The clitoris IS a functioning part of the body. Circumcision doesn't even compare to fgm (I agree that in this day and age, circumcision has literally no value for anyone who isn't Jewish, but I still don't think you understand the cultural background for circumcision).

You can't waltz in and say a culture is bad because it has something you don't agree with in it. The significance of circumcision for Jews is very large, and having been raised in a post-christian world I'm willing to bet that you have been raised to think that circumcision is a horrible remnant of barbaric times.

I'm not allowed to say much at all about the aboriginal situation, because I really don't understand the cultural context AT ALL. I think that if you're not Jewish, it is cruel to circumcise your children, culturally and humanly it's unacceptable...

but I'm willing to bet that most Jews that haven't broken away from that faith and social group would MUCH rather they be circumcised when they were babies than either not circumcised or circumcised when they are older. You really can't just say that something is dumb just because it looks like it outwardly, from your point of view.

Further more. Fgm is not an accepted religious practice, it is about men having total control over slaves and disabling females from enjoying sex. All of this is totally unacceptable. No Muslim slave who wasn't mutilated has ever said "you know what? I really wish someone had cut me up down there. It would give me real significance." It has never happened.

Also don't get emotional man. If you can't have a debate without getting angry, I don't have any use talking to you.

we are not comparing victims here. FGM removes feeling completely while circumcision removes some feeling. There is no excuse for deciding to lob off a piece of a human's body. The arguement that FGM is worse is both disrespectful and irrelevant.

It's not a horrible remnant in america people expect others to be circumcised. IT is how it is. Im not insulting a culture but a practice. Again if i have to insult someone to combat homophobia i will. If i have to insult culture to counter circumcision of a baby and making a decision for the rest of their life then i will.

Not only jews circumcise. But as for the jewish children you cant prove 100% that the child will be a follower of that faith for the rest of their life. It should be no one but the person's decision what happens to his bodyparts. I dont think you get to speak for every person born from jewish parents and even if the majority are fine what about the ones that arent

fgm is unacceptable unless the women wants it just like circumcision is unacceptable unless the man requests it. Frankly if you want to talk down to me or try to say i dont have the right to make an opinion on something then you are the one being disrespectful. You are literally comparing victims right now.

You are literally making assumptions about me and my stance and then strawmanning using those assumptions. I am making the most reasonable stance that circumcision'in your child without their approval is very bad because theyre the one that has to live with it.

The use of the foreskin is sexual pleasure like the clittoris is(i assume because fgm removes that and they say fgm removes pleasure). We are talking about first world problems where circumcision is a practice i have an issue with. un-voluntary fgm and circumcision are both bad and comparing the victims of either is insanely disrespectful.

All good points. I think I may have come across slightly differently to how I intended. But I still think you have missed what I was trying to say, I think you're being a little narrow minded and are choosing not to look at the WHOLE situation

If you were circumcised, I'm sorry. I don't think circumcision is something that should be practiced unless the parents have a very good reason to do so.

You must remember however that in Jewish culture, you obey what your parents say for your whole life, and you follow what they do. If your parents tell you to do something, you do it no matter what your age or opinion - you're being very western atm.

I think it's a terrible thing that non-Jews circumcise their children, you simply can't do things to your children without their consent... in our culture that is. Cultural difference is LITERALLY everything when it comes to things like this.

I'm not trying to talk down to you, you should be allowed an opinion. But you should remain open and understanding if you don't really know the entire situation and understand it.

In Australia, the city public got behind banning greyhound racing... and they were very angry about it... which is fine, until you actually look at the situation (I know this doesn't compare well, but it's something I know a bit about and can try to explain and compare common features).

There were bad apples in the greyhound racing industry, but the banning of the greyhounds meant that thousands of greyhounds suddenly didn't have a home and wrecked a shittonne of livestock.

The point that jewish children have to follow what their parents just brings up an entirely new conversation as to whether that culture is good or bad. If said culture does not allow you the choice to choose your religion then the entire thing would be indoctrination. I dont find my western values of basic freedoms as a bad thing.

All because the city people who only had limited experience with animals (and even then only as pets), thought that they were allowed the same amount of power in their opinion as the people who it would effect and those who really understood the whole situation.

All in an effort to get rid of a practice - that admittedly could be nasty in certain places - that they didn't like. And they ruined it for the people who ACTUALLY knew what was going on.

That's really still not the whole situation, it's all lies told to children (that being when it comes to things like this, everything is a lie, because you can always learn more about the topic, and in learning that, the previous facts becomes incorrect). So none of these problems have an easy answer or solution...

Im not arguing circumcision should be illegal im just making the point that if there is truly suppose to be religious freedom in america then why would parents be allowed to make that choice for their child. Beyond that im getting the feeling circumcision isnt as commonplace where you are as it is here

Yeah, sorry about the strawmanning (could you point out the particular places? For reference? It's really not a good practice in debating).

I think we may have run up against a brick wall here. Cultural differences make debating much more difficult.

I myself wasn't circumcised, and it's certainly on the way out with non-Jews. But my father was circumcised, and it's very commonplace with the previous generation.

i think the strawman comment was me just being defensive because of the repeated jewish comments. I dont want to limit religious freedom but id like for people to be making their own choices. Im against religion being used an an excuse by parents not the person(or patient)

Yeah that's fair.
I used the Jewish one allot, sorry.