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[1215] Archers

Discussion in 'Archer' started by -Tj-, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. -Tj-

    -Tj- Sicarii Donator
    1. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    357
    Dear KAG community
    I find that archers seem to be extremely overpowered now compared to the bulk of players who go knight + builder

    For example, when an archer is firing at you, the arrows don't seem to be like the previous build. The arrows just seem to have way to much velocity, plus as soon as the knight puts down his shield or the builder comes out from his hiding spot they get owned by this ridiculous thing.

    I dont know what was going through the devs minds + the testers who tested this before it went public but i know i speack for alot of people who play a range of classes(So, before you go "Just another spam about archers and knights", it is more then just that.)

    I dont know if this is going to be a permanent thing, but i feel some of the latest mechanics really really need to be worked on in order for KAG to prosper.

    Knights i dont have a problem with, only for the fact that the jab cancellation is already being abused by some members of the KAG community, I guess i just need to learn the new mech but i dont know.

    Im not trying to make a "hate" thread, all im saying is that the some mechs of the archer are a tad annoying, especially when your a builder and an archer is shooting at you from halfway across the map and sticking arrows in you.

    I know that this build is still a work in progress, and that a better one will be out next week some time, so im just giving the devs and everyone else a heads up on whats going on.
     
    Solaris, Fuzzle, xRush101 and 3 others like this.
  2. Tynite

    Tynite Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Arthurian Chosen Elites {Ace} -Invite Only

    Messages:
    59
    Couldn't have summed it up better than that. Maybe just a few little tweaks to archers, and it will be abit similar to the Kag I used to know.
     
    JayP9 and Lion_Eating_Poet like this.
  3. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    The only time when I've seen archers this build seem overpowered is when they're in numbers. I mean, if you think about it, that number of knights in a group would also be overpowered, so is it really so unbalanced? Arrows don't do any more damage than before, and I don't even think the knock-back changed. the only thing that changed was stun range.
    I think archers may just be living longer now that knights aren't as agile.
    Also, there's still the same counters to archers as there were before; other archers and bombs.
     
  4. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    I don't know if you fuckers read the build notes but here is what they changed that is related to archers:
    • Reduced stun range on arrows - nerf
    • Special arrows can only be used in first legolas shot (I've heard this one doesn't work) - nerf
    That's it.

    "But what about knight nerfs that make archers stronger"? Here is how the knights were nerfed:
    • Shield glide no longer infinite - Doesn't have much to do with archers
    • Jab does a little stun - is bad for archers
    • Slash lunge doesn't go as far - The ONLY thing that makes archers relatively stronger
    • Slash doesn't break shield for as long - has nothing to do with archers
    I don't know about whatever changes they made to grapple / arrow mechanics, but if they did make changes, they didn't put them in the patch notes.
     
  5. Chukka

    Chukka Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)
    2. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    282
    Yes but in comparison to the previous builds knight, the new one is much less agile. Wall climb alone was a big bummer for archers because knights could climb almost everything that an archer could. I haven't noticed any arrow velocity changes but grappling definitely seems tweaked.
     
  6. -Tj-

    -Tj- Sicarii Donator
    1. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    357
    Yes, we "fuckers" read the changelog so stop assuming shit.

    As your the reduced stun range; yes it was reduced, but you still get stunned from the exact same range.
    You heard right with legolas, it still fires all special arrows of the same kind.

    I know full well how knights were nerfed.
    and fwi: Its not a "Jab stun", its slash cancellation.
    Grapple as far as i know isnt effected much, but as for the velocity and how far arrows travel, that has changed bit time.
    Most of the time arrows travel is a pretty much horizontal line before falling at the last second.
     
  7. Malitha

    Malitha Shipwright
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    131

    I'm assuming that you do not know @-Tj- well enough and thats probably why you called him a "fucker". I.E That's just like calling person who's good as Gurin is a fucker.

    On a side note, I'm with -Tj-'s suggestion.
     
    Tynite and -Tj- like this.
  8. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,578
    Reduced stun range on arrows. Yep and? That was necessary.
    Special arrows can only be used in first legolas shot. This is half a nerf half a new advantage. Waterarrows are now super effective.
     
    crackwise likes this.
  9. -Tj-

    -Tj- Sicarii Donator
    1. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    357
    Water arrows have always been effective, now archers just tend to use them alot more.
     
  10. -Crimson-

    -Crimson- Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    108
    I wouldn't really call them.."nerfs".. but changes that made the game improve :^)

    Archers aren't over powered, BUT when they're in a pack, they can be. I hate that so much when I am knight, it ruins my experience.
    but you can't stop people being archers, (unless you made a class cap like some servers do on TF2) and if people want to be archers, they will be archer.
    The developers shouldn't nerf archer just because lots of people sometimes go to that class and then theirs a big group. That's just how it is,
    the same goes for a pack of knights.

    ^
    A more serious not though,
    slash velocity NEEDED to be changed, KNIGHTS COULD OUT RUN BUILDERS BY DOUBLE SLASHING ON LAND.
    If you don't call that OP, then I don't know what this thread is.

    I am not saying this thread is bad,
    but more people tend to complain to Geti now days just because they can't do something by themselves without teamwork.
    A pack of archers vs a builder(s) and knight protection could win the game.
    In fact, any offensive builder can win the game if they play their cards right, like Dar.

    Knight was getting to far up the ladder when it came to comparing all the classes in my opinion.
    but it doesn't mean that theirs still leak holes that the community just can't deal with and that's fine.
    The developers always think of something ::)::thumbs_up:
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  11. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

    Messages:
    793
    I don't like the fact that water arrow legolas shots are now stupidly effective at close to medium range. It's like an easy four hearts of damage for 25 coins, and imo, not fair. No class should be able to deal damage that easily. Knights need a way to counter that.

    Decreased arrow stun range... eh. It was okay before. I don't think it needed to change that much, but now that Knights have had their maneuverability brought down a few notches, I suppose fair is fair.

    Not everything will work perfectly, but I think the devs have the right idea about where they're going with class balance.
     
  12. emasame

    emasame Bison Rider

    Messages:
    122
    wouldnt the first shot be a water arrow and then the next two would only do 2 hearts? the tradeoff to the archer being way to close to the knight after hes out of stun makes up for it too in my opinion
     
  13. xRush101

    xRush101 Shipwright
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    49
    I believe archers should also be a bit more adjusted. Nothing drastic just minor changes to balance out the classes a bit more.

    Here are my suggestions:

    Dead Bodies: Being able to use dead bodies as shields against arrows. The dead body would only protect your torso. Your head is still vulnerable so good archers who are able to land head shots can still kill enemy knights.

    Reduce Charge Hold: Archers can hold their charge for way to long,

    Reduce Knock-back: Reduce the arrow knockback.
     
  14. BillyWeedman

    BillyWeedman Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    52
    Good thing is you don't get to see many tower campers anymore, with this new update archers tend to play more offensively and that can't be bad, makes for more interesting battles
    But about them being OP idk really, should play a bit more and test it myself :wink:
     
  15. NinjaCell

    NinjaCell Bison Rider

    Messages:
    357
    There is no difference in arrow velocity. None. At least the other things people are saying make sense. Why would they increase arrow velocity? The only real difference in archer/knight combat is that knights have less vertical mobility.

    It's totally ridiculous that you can make up stuff about arrow velocity and people will upvote you. That is literally the only point you made against archers in your original post. It's fine if you don't like archers legolas-spamming but that has nothing to do with the new build. Stop taking advantage of the hate to get people on your side. You just realised that no changes made directly affect the fact that archers are now killing you and so you invented a new change. This is not a kid hating his friend using Oddjob on Goldeneye. This is a kid hating his friend using mushrooms on MarioKart.

    The worst part about this build is you dying because of arrow spam. Something present in the last build. The worst part about the last build was towers being totally useless unless they were built in the build phase. This game is about killing things and building towers. Now the killing part is slightly off; before the tower building was non-existent after the build phase. Knights just floated over stuff.

    It's harder to kill archers on towers, but that's what towers are for. I don't know why the dev team would add a grapple if you can't use it to gain ground. Now, all you need is a bomb. That's what you needed for the majority of KAG. For the last while, though, knights could just about get up anything an archer could sans bomb.

    All this build needs is is the tiniest bit of teamwork. Arrow ladder. Fire arrow. Just getting another archer to shoot the enemies. That's how you take out a camping archer. Unlike the last build where a knight could solo everything and take out snipers themselves. Now you actually need archers and offensive builders are more common. Knights need to get used to the fact that they can't do everything themselves. Don't say teamwork is impossible, people ask me for arrow ladders or to carry a keg higher up. Archers are now needed.

    If you aren't as good in this build and you die to archers more, that does not make them OP. You just need to learn to play again. I seriously hope all this whining doesn't stop the devs from keeping these changes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  16. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    I still keep killing archers with my sword and pickaxe as before. I feel like ppl that play knight are just sad coz playing it is little harded now. I find knight vs archer combat more interesting now. Nothing is op.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  17. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    Nope, archers are not OP.
    Before, they were not underpowered either.

    Listen here, because I am about to blow your mind.
    Because of how terrible archers were made out to be, no one played Archer.
    Now that people play Archer, they are now useful and can rek some ass.
    :mine::blank::left::blank::migrant:
    . .
    . .
    . .
    boom.

    But really, the only reason why archers seem OP now is because they are now prominent.
    And because of that, more archers are playing, more are getting better, and Knights are getting butthurt.
    And I play knight, so I know how bad it is when you get rekt by someone that you could easily squish before.
     
  18. Jepton

    Jepton Shipwright

    Messages:
    147
    I played archer a lot yesterday. I killed. A lot.

    Only place where I died was if I didn't grapple-travel away or was in close quarters with a knight (Or archer VS archer combat).

    Not OP. Knights dominate short-range/mid-range (bombs), while archers can dominate long-range or mid-range. Builders aren't meant to be used in player VS player combat, really.
     
    NastyCamper likes this.
  19. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    Not unless you are the almighty Swine! 'MURICA!
     
    SirDangalang and Dargona1018 like this.
  20. Jepton

    Jepton Shipwright

    Messages:
    147
    I long for a texture pack that makes the builders' attack (mining) become punches.
     
    Dargona1018 likes this.