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[1215] Archers

Discussion in 'Archer' started by -Tj-, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    I said I can deal with 5 archers at a time, meaning I stop them from doing stuff (I also didn't say pro archers that know everything either). It doesn't take much effort (1 or 2 bombs) to make them scatter and retreat and not get yourself killed. Just because you see one archer doesn't mean you have to chase him through the entire map and kill him, he isn't worth your effort. If I have teammates with me, it's usually really easy to take down a team of archers. It sounds to me like you're just trying to kill everything without the assistance of your team. So let me ask you who should win: a team of archers working together, or #foreveralone knight who thinks he can win even when he's outnumbered?
     
  2. AJFaas

    AJFaas Base Burner
    1. supr sekrit cln [skrt]

    Messages:
    164
    Well first of all he is worth the effort because as soon as you go another way the archer will turn around and shoot you, and ruin your timing when youre facing up against other people.
    And maybe youre right. I actually do like to kill people with my own effort instead of relying on other people. And thats simply because thats all the fun of kag for me. killing many people, fast, with right timing. But thats not what kag is anymore. And I accept that, but thats not related to archers being too strong. Theyre just stronger on all ranges, theyre better at close, mid, and far range.
     
  3. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Bison Rider

    Messages:
    400
    SYSTEM DOWN REKT 2MUCH SKILLZ
    [​IMG]
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2014, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2014 ---
    So practically you like being the useless faggot
     
    Dargona1018 and Yagger like this.
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Re: why did I write "archers might be too strong" - knights got a handful of reasonably significant "nerfs", archers didn't. They got a couple of small changes like the spec arrow stuff and decreased stun range, but compared to the mobility drops and attacking rebalance that knights got it wasn't exactly proportional.

    Can confirm that next build archers get a change that should help prevent the reasonably mindless legolas barrages - all 3 arrows are fired at the same time, with a deterministic spread (instead of RNG as each one is fired). This means that you can't put 3 arrows streaming into one spot without them being individually charged, and gives some more interesting CQC (if you miss with your overcharge, you are forced to retreat instead of having 2 more shots to play with). We'll see how it plays out, I'm quite happy with how its seemed in testing though.
     
    Anonymuse and SirDangalang like this.
  5. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    I like that Idea. Stopping Noobs spamming arrows into knight fights.
     
  6. AJFaas

    AJFaas Base Burner
    1. supr sekrit cln [skrt]

    Messages:
    164
    @Geti
    That certainly sounds like a nice balance. Althought what worries me is that archers still own the close range and can still fire 3 shots that punch your shield aside and hit you 2 times when you get too close to them. But well see.
     
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    @Fuzzle: We've got half of them (at least the US based ones) as testers.

    Being able to damage through shields is the point of overcharge. They can also cleanly 1-hit builders and archers with it, but need to be in range - the main thing it's aimed at preventing is spamming streams of arrows from towers - if you want to do that you're encouraged to use single shots and actually aim each one individually.
     
    Anonymuse and AJFaas like this.
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Lets take a closer look, shall we?

    Malitha - not a tester
    Kedram - only recently a tester
    Asumagic - not a tester
    Fernegulus - not a tester
    8x - not a tester
    SlayerSean - not a tester
    SpideY - not a tester
    Rayne - a tester
    NinjaCell - not a tester
    Auburn - not a tester
    Skinney - a tester
    So first page positive replies cap 8/11 not testers; hardly a majority there. The likes on the OP are 18/23 (not testers/total).

    Neither of these are conclusive or anything, but you seem to be heavily implying that what we do is just for the testers or that we don't have a diverse array of testers. You also seem to be implying that the testers are silencing or otherwise suppressing the opinions of anyone who disagrees with their views. You're wrong on both counts, and it'd be polite for you to be forthcoming about your views rather than passive aggressive, and perhaps get informed on what goes on behind the scenes before pointing fingers.

    We're well aware you personally didn't like the changes in 1215 - however, the aggregate opinion we've observed is positive about the changes, and the desired effect of the changes (more teamwork, more important structures, stronger builder presence in the field, fewer solo-only slash heavy knights) have been observed as well.

    Note that if we didn't make changes based on "a few (maybe a bunch) people might not like it" we would never be able to make any change to the game at all, for any reason. I've addressed this separately here. You've said yourself that these are balance focused changes - if you are interested in the game's greater good, you will agree that achieving greater overall balance is in the best interests of every competitive or casual player.
     
    Klokinator, Auburn, Aurora- and 2 others like this.
  9. Malitha

    Malitha Shipwright
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    131
    It would help greatly if you could have specified why you disagree, instead of just saying "no" and leave us hanging.
     
    Dargona1018 and Auburn like this.
  10. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Holy shit, a fucking spread shotgun attack?! I am all over this.

    Get outta my face knights, I've got a goddamn shotgun for a bow.
     
    Dargona1018 and Fuzzle like this.
  11. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    He cares if you can actually provide feedback that lets him know what exactly it is that you dislike about the game, and whether or not a lot of people agree with your opinion. he doesn't care if you just say "i no like it pls no change".
     
  12. He cared enough to actually reply to you and attempt to explain the reasoning and overall progress process of patching the game.

    I don't know man, I think he cares.
     
    Malitha likes this.
  13. AJFaas

    AJFaas Base Burner
    1. supr sekrit cln [skrt]

    Messages:
    164
    @Geti
    One more thing I wanna say that I really hope you will add in the next build is; that stabs also disrupt archers attacks, like they do knights.
     
  14. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Archers don't need interruptions, dude. Knights have a charge attack and a quick-attack, archers only have a charge attack. If an archer's attack is canceled, they have NO backups.
     
    Dargona1018 likes this.
  15. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Pretty sure I already said this somewhere but stabs DO interrupt archers. It resets their arrow charge, cancels their grapple, and I think even interrupts their momentum.
     
    Auburn likes this.
  16. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    Archers don't need to be stunned by jabs, it makes it impossible to get away safely whatsoever at that point.
     
  17. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    I think they're interrupted, not actually stunned. It lasts 1/60th of a second, so it just cancels what they were doing, and they can jump away or whatever instantly afterwards.
     
    Potatobird likes this.
  18. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    This, jabs aren't really a stun. They don't even stun knights for any noticeable length. All they do is cancel whatever you're doing. It's still really annoying for archers mostly because they're easy to kill, but if you get close enough to get jabbed chances are you were going to die anyway.
     
  19. AJFaas

    AJFaas Base Burner
    1. supr sekrit cln [skrt]

    Messages:
    164
    I think he cares dude. But if he has an opinion on something, you gotta have solid logic to change it. Changing peoples minds is really hard. But you can always try.
    But i think the main problem with you and me and other people is, is that geti and everyone here has a different view on how he wants the finished game to be. Everyone has different way of seeing balance. Me personally, I think archers should be dead when they get caught by knights. But geti thinks archers should be deadly at close range. And thats hard to accept for me, because the game isnt going the way I, and some other people, want it to be. On the other hand its going in the right direction for other people, who share the same view as geti. But it will be balanced, just not balanced to my taste. But that doesnt mean it isnt right.
    In this case I guess we gotta swallow the big pill and accept it. But you can always try to change views on things...

    As the biebs says, never say never. lol
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2014, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2014 ---
    Naw i tested it. It doesnt cancel their attack, as far as i know. Im not asking for a stun, just for archer to get their arrow charge canceled. I had several occasions where i stabbed aa archer and still got 3 full arrows in my body before i could land a second stab.
     
  20. Malitha

    Malitha Shipwright
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    131
    If Geti didn't actually care, He would have abandoned the game after steam sales. I know that some of the devs of other games actually do abandon their own games during early access/beta stages
    eg : Creators of Prison Architect.
    This game has already sold 100,000 copies. Which is a pretty big achievement for any indie game developer. KAG is what it is today because of Geti. If he didn't care he wouldn't have released new builds and asked the community their opinion on them. He could have just been like "idgaf imma move onto a new game to earn more monie$". But no, Geti didn't do that; and the only reason he didn't do that was because he cares about the game. He wants to see the game developing further and further, rather than it forever lurking in one build forever.