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[1239] Critique my Block-efficiency tower

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by DionDiBlank, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8
    Hope this is the right place.

    So, I noticed in pretty much all games towards the end there's a real dire need for stone but there's always a surplus of wood. I was thinking to myself, how can a wood/stone combination be best mixed for maximum protection at a low cost and easily repaired?

    Let's face it, fully stone structures are expensive and full wood is asking to be set on fire.​

    I came up with this:

    KAG 2014-10-20 01-44-54-255.png
    This first picture shows the essential build of the tower, of course it can be extended upwards as necessary.

    I'll explain why I used every block piece by piece.

    1. Backwall and supports - out of stone but possible to use wood/stone to save on stone and prevent fires. It's always good to extend the supports outward to prevent the tower from collapsing.
    2. Wall structure - stone with gaps between them. Wooden platform placed directly after the stone block.
    Why the wooden platforms? They are resilient against melee attacks, protect the underlying stone blocks from explosive damage, cheap, allow outgoing and intercept incoming attacks.
    Why the gaps between stone blocks and wooden platforms? To allow replacement of the wooden platforms from the safety within the wall and prevent spread of fire. One builder with a horde of wood can easily maintain the integrity of the entire wall by constantly replacing wooden platforms as soon as they go down.​
    3. Door frame - Memorise the pattern of wooden platforms at the door, they're placed like that so as to allow your team mates to pass in and out of the wall with ease. It's a simple jump diagonally to get back inside.
    Why the odd platform facing down? To prevent any knights from climbing upwards.
    Why the single wooden door? To prevent fire on wooden platforms spreading to the doors. It doesn't matter if the doors are made of stone though.​
    4. Ladder - has a one block gap between it and the stone blocks. This prevents any damage to it from the outside.

    Sequence 01.Still006.jpg Sequence 01.Still007.jpg Sequence 01.Still008.jpg
    Images:

    1. Shows how a knight cannot move up the wall because of the downward facing wooden platform
    2. Destruction caused by the impact of a bomb arrow on the clump of wooden platforms infront of the door. Notice no damage taken to the underlying stone.
    3. The external wooden platforms are easily replaced from within the safety of the wall

    Pros and Cons of this design
    Pros
    1. Very cheap start cost - Uses a fraction of the stone a larger thick stone wall would require.
    2. Low maintenance cost - Stone is precious, the majority of resource expenditure will be 20 wood per wooden platform replaced however, wood is easy to acquire throughout a match. This design should significantly prolong your teams' usage of stone.
    3. Low manpower upkeep - One builder should be able to maintain the integrity of the wall at all times, being able to reinforce the external wooden platforms from the safety within the walls.
    4. Archer's Paradise - The nature of the gaps allows archers to shoot arrows safely at targets high above or down on the ground at the base of the wall. Enemy archers will have hell trying to hit anything inside, their only chance being direct shots through the gaps
    5. No fire risk - The gaps and stone skeleton prevents fire from spreading.
    6. No explosive risk (keg exception) - Bombs will only damage the wooden platforms which can easily be replaced.
    7. Anti-Builder - As long as those gaps and wooden platforms are present, they'll help stop builders from digging in at the wall

    Cons
    1. Kegs - Well, just about any design will have trouble with kegs however, destruction will be a lot less cost-intensive than other designs. A keg may blow 3 stone blocks, a number of wooden platforms, maybe some support wall? Not too bad considering it may take roughly 40 stone, 40 wood to repair compared to the hundreds of stone/wood in another design.
    2. Retards - Other builders have no clue what you're doing. It's so frustrating to see team mates fill in the gaps with stone wall/wooden platforms. The gaps are there for a reason: to allow the repair of the external wall from the inside.


    That's pretty much it. Didn't think this post would be so long, hope you don't mind the great wall of text. I'm not sure if somebody has done something like this before. I think it's pretty much fool-proof but please do pick at it if you can find any holes.

    My tests in matches have been pretty damn good, I maintained a wall like this for a good 10 minutes on my own, doing quick runs back and forth to get more wood.


    Version 2.0 - improvements​

    Thanks for the feedback. I took what you wrote and tried to come up with a solution. The problem previously lay in the door frame, a single block could prevent anyone from passing through. I have made two improvements that should make it fool-proof and provide extra defensive capabilities.

    1. Door Frame
    Height of the door from the ground - has been raised. This is ideal to prevent enemies being able to 'hover' and attack the doors
    Trap block has been inserted - Enemies will simply fall through this while your team mates will be able to use it to climb. This is important because it allows team mates to re-enter the walls.
    Wooden platform pattern - has changed. This pattern is quite important as it will allow team mates that have used the trap block to boost a way inside whilst preventing enemies a way of climbing in. Also, this should prevent builders from blocking the doorway if they try to build ladders directly infront.

    2. Defensive Spike Drop
    In sandbox it is possible to place a spike trap three blocks infront. I'm unsure if this is the same in multiplayer however, if the maximum distance were two blocks it would be possible to replace the top stone block with a wooden platform giving access to dropping spikes with relative safety.

    If there are any more holes please let me know, the design should work correctly now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  2. Chukka

    Chukka Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)
    2. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    282
    I love it. Cheap, quick, and easy to repair. Yet just as efficient as other more expensive towers.

    Note: I probably wouldn't use this as a main defense. Instead as a forward outpost at mid or something.
     
    killatron46 likes this.
  3. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8
    I didn't know if anyone would reply, glad you like the design.

    I agree about the front line thing. A drawback is the set up time. Sometimes you just don't have time to pick and choose which block goes where. Definitely solid as a forward outpost/mid map.
     
  4. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,276
    i disagree 1 bomb and theyre thru the tower already....
     
  5. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8
    A single bomb won't destroy the wooden platform outright, it would get damaged. An arrow bomb on the other hand would destroy the wooden platform in one shot though. Important part is that the underlying stone blocks are there and those missing wooden platforms can be swiftly replaced by a builder within the wall.

    A big problem with solid wall designs is that external damage can be a pain in the ass to fix. Usually you have to wait for the fighting to calm down outside the walls then get to the area of damage to repair.

    This purpose of this design is to allow repairs constantly and cheaply yet provide a good degree of protection. Wooden platforms are resilient to attacks for what you pay for them.
     
  6. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,276
    no you fall thru the platform and place a bomb inside it and then the one stone block you are using as protection breaks and the knights are in
     
  7. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8
    That's only on the base of the tower. It's a problem for all towers getting attacked at the base. It's possible to put another wooden platform in the first gap at the bottom of the tower to prevent anyone from rushing, should that bottom stone block be broken it could too be replaced by a wooden platform until team mates come to repel attackers.

    I had another design very similar to this except the door frame was higher in the sky. If you could imagine the base looked like this Block-Gap-Block-Gap-Block-Bloock-Doorframe-etc

    That would prevent a bomb falling inside a wooden platform, it'd be pretty hard to aim it fall between the gaps
     
  8. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,276
    no almost no good towers have a place where 1 bomb can open up the tower to the other team also a smart builder would just place a door above the stone block and then break it so they basically take over your tower....
     
  9. Guro

    Guro SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM

    Messages:
    111
    The tower looks simple to erect, cheap and relatively effective. I think its most useful application would be as a small forward tower equivalent to what linepiece towers and repairable modules were back in classic. I can't see it taking a heavy amount of pressure but I think it is robust and has great stopping power for the amount of resources used. I'm really happy to see a quality building critique, and you highlighted the positive and negative features clearly.
    Nice work.

    The only real issue is the amount of time it takes to ladder over this tower. It only takes one ladder to get knights over it and a minimal amount of resources to make it non functional. Obviously it is possible to extend, but that makes it much harder to maintain depending on the size of the tower, and I see the repairable nature of the tower to be a strong point. It only takes 25 stone and about 40 wood to temporarily convert the tower into a spike dropping trap, as seen here:

    critqiue1.png

    I've highlighted the major blocks it takes to temporarily convert the tower.

    This is easy to do and takes only seconds. Using minimal resources you can block off the door and make it temporarily unclimbable, restricting enemy team access. In addition to this you can drop spike on the backwall where my cursor is to prevent people from using the ladder.

    Every building has weaknesses though. I really like this as a small, sturdy, reusable linepiece style tower and your critique was well structured.

    Quality post all round.

    P.S: You should have posted this in the building critiques sub forum of the classes and
    mechanics section.

    E: Fixed
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  10. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,276
    \
    i dont get the green and red boxes....and is all of the tower suppose to burn and collapse?
     
  11. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8

    Thanks for the feedback. I took what you wrote and tried to come up with a solution. The problem previously lay in the door frame, a single block could prevent anyone from passing through. I have made two improvements that should make it fool-proof and provide extra defensive capabilities.

    KAG 2014-10-20 14-09-43-007.png
    1. Door Frame
    Height of the door from the ground - has been raised. This is ideal to prevent enemies being able to 'hover' and attack the doors
    Trap block has been inserted - Enemies will simply fall through this while your team mates will be able to use it to climb. This is important because it allows team mates to re-enter the walls.
    Wooden platform pattern - has changed. This pattern is quite important as it will allow team mates that have used the trap block to boost a way inside whilst preventing enemies a way of climbing in. Also, this should prevent builders from blocking the doorway if they try to build ladders directly infront.

    KAG 2014-10-20 14-09-50-333.png
    2. Defensive Spike Drop
    In sandbox it is possible to place a spike trap three blocks infront. I'm unsure if this is the same in multiplayer however, if the maximum distance were two blocks it would be possible to replace the top stone block with a wooden platform giving access to dropping spikes with relative safety.

    If there are any more holes please let me know, the design should work correctly now.
     
    killatron46 and Guro like this.
  12. always add overhangs and remember than wooden backwall cannot be ignited if separated from solid blocks by a single stone backwall
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  13. I like this and if you put a bomb within a platform it's not going to damage anything but the platform within.

    This tower is cheap, easy to make and well thought out. [​IMG]
    Seal of approval :thumbs_up:
     
    Chukka and DionDiBlank like this.
  14. DionDiBlank

    DionDiBlank Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    8
    Thanks for the seal, not sure if it means anything haha.

    I updated the original post with the improved version in a spoiler. Used this earlier today as a defense when the enemy broke through our frontline wall. Worked really well, then they kegged the base of it. Damage was minimal - two stone blocks and a few wooden platforms. Easily replaced and the defence kept going.
     
    Guro likes this.
  15. Well if they are using a keg on this thats a waste enough...
     
  16. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    I also tried making a tower, this is what i came up with:
    2.jpg
    3.jpg
    4.jpg
    1.jpg

    This is almost archer proof and its very durable against bombs. It costs a little bit more. it is also infinitely expandable.
     
  17. ThE_HeRo

    ThE_HeRo Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    135
    It's very fast and easy to build, requires a minimum amount of resources, can take multiple bomb explosions/bomb arrow explosions, and, you can't wall run up it. Very easy. Though, if you don't get the block placement JUST right, something could go wrong. But it seems easy to remember. C;