[1239] Platforms, Explosives & Mines Data Collection

I did some testing and collected data that I thought I'd share.

KAG Version: BUILD [1215]

Platforms

Their rotation matters quite a bit for blast deflection and how far a blast reaches. If a blast gets behind the solid part of the platforms, everything behind the solid part will take full damage and the platform will take full damage (usually breaking the platform, depending on the type of explosive).

So, always have the solid part of the platforms able to 'catch' the brunt of an explosion to prevent most damage from getting passed them. In fact, the keg is the only explosive that will get through the solid side of platforms.

Backwalling isn't too much of a concern but since platforms are wooden be careful to make sure that if an enemy sets fire to them that they wont burn anything too severely.

Damage and penetration against platforms:

Bomb
Was not able to break a single platform, but did damage. Highly ineffective. In fact I believe I remember pick-axing 5 times to break the damaged block, which means you would need 3 bombs to break 1~2 measly platforms. You can place bombs directly in between 2 platforms to deal full damage to both, for maximum destruction against enemy platforms (maybe enough to get into a base).

Mine
Breaks 4~5 platforms and sends a 17-block-length damaging blast (8-block-length out in each direction) parallel to the solid side of the platform it was against.

Keg
If set directly against platforms, it can break through a 3 or 4-thick wall of them (depending on how close the keg was too the wall), with a total reach of 6 or 7, the final 3 or 4 of which take 5/9 tile damage. The extended parallel blast seems less powerful than the mine's against other platforms but that's a minor detail. If set up perfectly against a wall, this is practically like throwing 48 bombs at once (or more)!



Bomb Arrow
Breaks 2 platforms. About half the efficiency of a mine.

Fire arrow
Burns randomly, but you get 2 shots. 9/10 times this will burn all the way through your target with one shot. Also on the subject of fire arrows and platforms, fire can catch diagonally so a wall design like this can fail horribly:






This works a lot better, but takes some setup time:






Remember to backwall the platforms and have them facing the enemy.

Slashing
Jabs - Can only pick 1 block at a time. Takes 72 jabs to break 1 block! Kind of ridiculous.
Single Slash - Breaks a 12 block pattern around the slash, generally speaking if you were pressed up against a wall though, 3 platforms all take damage at once. Takes 18 slashes to break all 3 platforms at the same time.
Double Slash - It is literally 2 single slashes, so 9 double-slash charges breaks about 3 platforms.

Pickaxe
It takes 9 swings with a pickaxe to break 1 platform. This is often why they're referred to as 'builder proofing'.

Drill
Drills can break 1⅔ ~ 2* platforms depending on how the platforms are set up. This damage will be spread if you drill into a 2-deep wall of platforms, dealing 17/36 damage in a square like this:
5/9, 4/9 <- Drilling this way
4/9, 4/9 <-
I would say don't waste the drill on such a low amount of damage. That stone could be used to build 2 stone doors which also prevent drilling against your team. However, if you already own the drill by picking it up off someone), try to break stone block or make dirt passages that lead into your enemy's base. With that said, if you are in a place where you can wait for the drill to cool down, this is definitely a possible solution for breaking platforms.
*Platforms against stone wall seem to be able to be broken slightly more easily, allowing a breakage of 2 (and the stone behind the platforms, amazingly) as opposed to 1⅔. This is a very minor detail and because backwall can be destroyed, this rule can pretty much be ignored, but keep in mind that someone with a drill is able to break about 2 platforms before his drill overheats.

Most efficient platform destroyers from best to worst:

1. Fire arrow (Special case, but still)
2. Keg
3. Mine
4. Bomb Arrow
5. Pickaxe
6. Drill (if you're in a safe place, you can reuse it)
7. Slashing
8. Bomb (Ranked lowest because the pickaxe and slashing are free)

Other notes:
Platforms and stone take about the same damage from kegs. The reasoning for platform integration into walls is to prevent drills from getting through them, so even if you are lazy, throwing down a pattern like this is worth it:








Both this and the design from earlier take a similar amount of damage from kegs. Admittedly this pattern can be put down much faster.



Archer Trick (NOTE: It has been brought to my attention this may be a bannable offense)
Archers are able to glitch through platforms solid side sometimes by grappling the platforms and sliding across them. The chance of this has been reduced in build 1215 to be somewhere close to 1/40, and probably a lot less than that in the heat of battle. I've also managed to glitch through as builder and knight but it seems like it is a low enough chance to be considered 'fixed'. Also, this is considered an exploit anyways, so try to use fire arrows and get through the platforms legitimately - doing so will usually open a large hole for the rest of your team to assist you.

Holes
A hole in vertical platforms can be jumped through by all the classes. It seems to be somewhat luck based with a chance of working closer to 1/15. Granted, builder and knight can break the platforms and archer can grapple through. The lesson here I'm trying to show however, is that you should not leave holes during construction because enemies (despite having a 2x2 base) can get through a gap in platforms.

Spoiler

Holes in the floor can be passed through by complete accident, but the fastest method is to stand above the hole and tap LEFT/RIGHT until you fall through. If you dont fall through after 5 taps, just jump up and when you land start tapping again. It should only take 4~6 taps.

Spoiler

A hole in downward facing platforms is surprisingly difficult to get through. In fact, I think the archer is the only one actually able to get through with a chance close to 1/99 grapple throws. This could prove to be useful information for budgeted trap building.

Spoiler

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Mines

Things that will trigger your own mines:
Enemy Corpses

Things that wont trigger your own mines:
Bomb (Not the explosion nor the bomb entity)
Water bomb (Not the explosion nor the bomb entity)
Mines (Not the explosion nor the bomb entity)
Bucket
Lantern
Trampoline (set up or not)
Arrow (Shot)
Water Arrows (Not the explosion nor the entity)
Fire Arrows (Not the explosion nor the entity)
Bomb Arrows (Not the explosion nor the entity)
Drill (Not drilling nor the entity)
Saw (Off)
Keg (Entity only, not the explosion)
Wood piles
Stone piles
Gold piles
Arrows (as in, the group of arrows you can pick up, the entity)
Boulder
Burger

Things that will break your own mines without detonation:
Keg explosions
Saw (On)
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So yeah, if anyone has solid evidence of other things regarding platforms and mines (especially what will disarm/set of enemy mines) feel free to post it and I'll include it in this post. Also if this isn't the place for this, by all means an admin is free to move it.

 

What about water bombs?

 

From the testing I did knight was unable to detonate his own mine with a resource pile.. Maybe it just bugged out or something with the knight class I had, I have no idea, but it would not detonate after 25+ attempts whereas with archer or builder it was 1 drop every time.

I tested most of the other objects pretty extensively and none of the objects were triggering an explosion. Feel free to test it - it could be the difference between online and sandbox, too. I haven't tested anything online so if someone does have insight there I'd be willing to add it. I do plan on revisiting a lot of this though when I get a chance to play online, but of course that's going to be somewhat slower because I don't own my own server (hint hint server owners perhaps? *ahem*)

Edit:

What about them?... This assumes you're already aware that water bombs/arrows deal no damage.

 

Water bombs deal alot of damage to ones feelings.

 

I presume this was a McDonald's burger, right? Heard they give... ahem... explosive diarrhea.

 

Thanks for testing this stuff out!

 

It's cool, I'll just update it. That's why I endeavoured to have the version number somewhere on here, because I know that things change all the time.

I was kind of expecting both of these to change, so I wanted to gather some intel on how they currently work.

What is the reasoning for mines falling through platforms though? Was this intended? I can see them falling through trap blocks as necessary because otherwise trap blocks would be useless, but for platforms it's just annoying - they can sink through plats and once they're under you have to break the platforms to retrieve them. It's not that bad though, items get spent and the game moves on, it just seems a little unintuitive that plats are so restrictive for everything else to collide onto the solid side but they let this giant mine sink through.

Also, while this is getting fixed anyways and isn't important, you CAN throw resource piles onto mines as knight to detonate them (build 1180 for any future readers, read the OP I'll have the updated information there when it's available - be sure to match the version number!). For whatever reason the game just bugged out and I actually wasn't able to when I was testing. Very strange bug coincidentally it just happened to me again as builder and knight.

 

As long as you are on the opposite team, it does work. Even though you put trigger your own mines, others might not be as perceptive and choose not to shoot enemy mines.

Also, one interesting thing with mines:
If you pick up an enemy mine BEFORE it activates, you can put it in your inventory and dispose of it in whatever way you wish. It doesn't change sides, though, so you can't use it offensively to your advantage.

 

As much as I hate to see that (too much fun whipping mines right through an enemies base onto a buider's head) it's for the best.

 

Fantastic post, OP.

You get my seal of approval.


kind of bummer that new platforms are on the way, but, nevertheless, fantastic post

 

That's called glitching with grapple and people are banning archers which does that.

 

@Corpsey Ej approved your post, you win forum.

 

Funny that you quoted the post about holes and not the post about the actual archer glitching

Spoiler

(this gif was actually cut down from a gif where I perform this 10 times in a row and then once through the ground, which for whatever reason, wouldn't let me upload to mediafire)

To be honest, this hadn't been fixed for so long I figured everyone was playing taking it into consideration for the following reasons:
Archer could just buy fire arrow anyways, so anywhere they could get with this glitch they could get to legitimately without it.
It's extremely easy to do to the point where if you haven't done this even by accident I think you might be awful.

With that said, now that you mention it I do remember getting banned after capturing a flag with this technique. I try not to exploit it tbh (along with all the other bugs) but nothing is stopping players from doing this really, so I put the information out there so that maybe builders plan with this in mind that ' archers who don't mind abusing exploits are able to do this '. Banned or not, pubs are pubs... and the people exploiting it may not be aware that it is a bannable offense - they're just playing in the way that they've experienced, which could include this technique as a possibility.

This could be fixed in updates, and when it is, I'll be sure to update the OP and remove it.

 

And then some other people asked him about changes to knight mechanics.

 

Out for weekend, will update when back.

EDIT: It seems like 1215 made most things not collide with friendly mines (making that list at the end of this almost obsolete..). Damage against platforms seems to be the same. The archer glitch is 'fixed enough'. Holes can still be walked and jumped through, so I left that bit in. Also the automatic backwalling is kind of neat.