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[1591] Water bomb Discussion

Discussion in 'Knight' started by neil58, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. Darknighte9

    Darknighte9 Horde Gibber Official Server Admin
    1. KAG Competitive League
    2. Competitive KAG

    Messages:
    79
    But in clan wars at least you have communication (or I at least hope). That kind of luxury does not exist in pubs because the nature of pubs is casual. The only reason water bombs are nice in pubs is because the other 9-15 people on your team likely aren't communicating to the degree you would in a competitive match. I'll leave this thread too, but I think Swine made some very good points. And in regards to defense, at the very minimum you can at least move back from a water bomb so if you do get hit, the kick of a water bomb (when jumping in the air), the force will negate some of the stun time. I could go ahead and say the exact same thing about water arrows, but I guess those are okay because archers are a support class and water should be put into a totally different category for them (some sarcasm intended). Whether an archer is shooting me with water, or a knight hits me with a water bomb, I'm helpless either way, which is why I find it silly that people want the total removal of one item and/or serious nerfs, but are still willing to promote the use of another very similar item (with very minor nerfs), just because two classes have different duties in a competitive match.
     
  2. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia still a better waifu than Hella Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,100
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
    PUNK123, Obione5256 and heX_ like this.
  3. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    436
    :3, thanks para :OOO
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  4. tru0067

    tru0067 Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    157
    How about they act as they do now BUT they require an arming time of about 1 second. If thrown before "armed" they would not explode on contact and instead lie around until their timer goes off (around 4 seconds - same as bomb) (regrabable during this time?).

    This would:
    1. Negate them from being used instantly, one of the major problems. This way you would at least have a bit of warning, allowing you to run away, try to catch etc.
    2. Not completely cripple them (as other suggested nerfs would) - they would still be good... just react-able to
    3. Open up a new interesting usage of them... throwing them prematurely to set water traps
     
    swagbot and Blue_Tiger like this.
  5. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    436
    I can see this, but the time would need to be based on throwing time, if thrown less than one second after lighting, will not explode on impact, if in the air for longer than one second it should adhere to not exploding on impact.
     
  6. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    81
    Except they do mean an instant kill if the archer is playing support and isn't being a maverick. An archer that is fighting for his team instead of his KDR can insure an instant kill for his teammate. If anything the water knockback should be increased so that it can only be used in more accurate and/or specific situations, situations that an enemy can more easily forecast. Given that the only complaint is the unpredictability of a water bomb, this should solve the issue.

    It's easy to use if you're providing support for your team, it takes more skill to use it for your own gain (KDR). Plus it provides a more formidable answer to archers kiting hard.

    That would make it almost useless except in situations where you're providing support for your team (assist kills). I wouldn't mind this solution so much if assists were actually acknowledged on the scoreboard (COME ON GETI, JUST DO IT), but it would also make knightvsarcher (where the archer is straight up kiting the knight incessantly) extremely tedious. A good archer can generally outrun a bomb once it's activated and baking, but a water bomb allows the knight to close the gap or completely stop the archer from running.

    First of all, it's beyond easy to catch a water bomb that is LOBBED, particularly at medium-long distances. The problem is catching a water bomb at a close distance, particularly when a player knows how to throw them quickly as opposed to lobbing them. A fair nerf might be having them fly slower through the air (like when you lob one straight into the air, but the distance you can throw them isn't reduced) since it will allow more room for reaction time, but i'd like to see their detonation time increased if this nerf happened. Who wouldn't wanna see players playing hot potato with it?

    Perhaps an item like an anti-paralysis potion that you can activate when stunned to become unparalyzed. Or perhaps you can see what bombs are on a player like a batman utility belt that everyone sports so the only element of surprise is when they use it. The main problem that everyone is voicing is that you can't anticipate a waterbomb thrown quickly; either slow the water bomb, give it a fuse like a bomb (rendering it nearly useless except for supporting your team), allow the player to counter the paralysis (a potion), force the player to arm the bomb before being thrown (pressing space would arm the bomb [the player would hold the bomb like a normal bomb; it would be out for everyone to see] and a certain amount of time would have to elapse before the bomb could be thrown [i wouldn't like to see a fuse activate like a normal bomb during arming, it would just be held like a fuseless bomb]), or make it so you can tell when a player has bomb and/or water bombs. Removing them is a shitty solution, and IMO giving them a fuse is almost as bad. The latter solution makes them about as useful as boulders currently are
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  7. CowboyDan

    CowboyDan Arsonist Tester Official Server Admin Donator
    1. KAG Gather

    Messages:
    132
    how about if your shield if facing the direction of the splash you dont get stunned, they travel a bit slower through air, you can slash them like ballista bolts, and of course still grab them. (serious)
     
  8. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    436
    I dont think that anything so sudden and unavoidable should exist, barring on water arrows of course, the knight class shouldnt have such an item in my opinion, if there was a nerf that allowed the victim to actually react instead of getting lolspacebarrekt i think water bombs would be better overall.
     
    Obione5256 likes this.
  9. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    I much preferred buckets to water arrows, and have never seen water bombs so guaranteed as water arrows.

    The difference here is that there is more affect on the arc of the water bomb, and the chance of killing yourself from moving, and [being able to] engage with a water bomb, which explains my experience compared to water arrows which fit very readily with the skills of an archer. It's as if they aren't too different from arrows.
     

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