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[2374] Common mistakes made by experienced builders

Discussion in 'Building Critiques' started by Didgedy, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. Didgedy

    Didgedy Arsonist

    So I am making this thread to bring attention and make a discussion for various structural ''mistakes'' people make when building a fort.
    I made an fort in sandbox that is meant to highlight the some of the problems, so keep in mind that this isn't meant to be a 100% accurate representation of what I've seen in game, certainly not all these things in one, but it will do fine as an example.
    Okay, so I will list faults in order. Keep in mind that this is stuff I see people do very often.
    1. The platforms haven't got stone backwall on them, so they burn down entirely from one arrow. It can be easily fixed, but it tends to cost a lot of time and opens a large gap for the enemy.
    2. The front wall should NOT be there. It might look like extra protection, but in reality it allows enemy knights to walljump to the top when otherwise it might not have been possible. AND archers can no longer hit anyone in front of it.
    3. There is only one way to get on the roof. If someone like Asu or Maltager somehow gets on the tower (they will, they are pro), then anyone coming to up to kill them is at a severe disadvantage.
    4. Uncovered knight shop on the roof. Experienced players might not make one there, but a less experienced one might and nobody is going to bat an eye for the whole time it is there.
    5. It's way too dark inside. I've seen people argue ''But then the enemy can't see anyone inside!''. Yeah, but neither can we, and builders/archers are slowly moving ducks to one enemy knight that came in when there was a breach in the wall (see point 1 and 2). Even worse when this is done in cave-like maps, where unseen enemy builders can easily establish a foothold.
    6. The wall is straight up vertical and the doors are too damn high. Now this is meta, and people are definitely going to disagree with me here, but I am strongly against this because:
    1) It makes it very easy for enemy builders to just build a little roof over their head right at the base of the tower, which is even worse when there are trap blocks that can act as doors for them (and there often are).
    2) Those trap blocks can often be destroyed, and you can't enter your base as knight anymore.
    3) Any knight than comes out to defend will come from one predictable place up high - a builder can block it, archers will shoot at it, and you can be sure that most knights will either need to be in the flag room in case it is reached, or outside, away from the flag.
    Now, what we can do to fix this:
    1. Platforms have a stone backwall to them, adding a lot of extra protection for a very low stone cost.
    2. Front wall removed and replaced with a platform wall - provides a first line of defense against most things, can be shot through by archers, and can't be scaled as comfortably by the enemy. Those that do scale it are easy targets. Alternatively, it could be incorporated into the rest of the fort.
    3. Two more ways to get on the roof, now safe to approach Osmal or 8x.
    4. Covered the knight shop. It can still be useful to your team, in case you need to switch to knight quickly.
    5. Added some holes in the wall, now you can see.
    6. Added an uncontroversial door/ladder structure to the front of the base that solves most problems - Can't be blocked easily, can't be destroyed easily, and won't shield any enemies digging to flag.

    Blubahub, ParaLogia, epsilon and 2 others like this.
  2. Lava

    Lava Former Lag King Staff Alumni Donator Tester

    1. remove smooth shader
    and yeah :thumbs_up: to what you said
    Blubahub likes this.
  3. mcrifel

    mcrifel Haxor Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    I don't think it is wise to follow a set of rules. Games play out different every time and even though there are some consistent patterns it isn't worth it to try and counter it and making other parts of your defense lacking.

    During build phase I spam backwall and then make a nice straight 1 thick wall made out of wood blocks and stone blocks with plenty of holes for platforms and doors. It is super simple but it is the best thing to make imo. It is easy to work with and you can mold it throughout the game to suit your needs. It is easy to repair and maintain for a builder.

    I think most of the things around your flag room are unnecessary and hinder more than it helps. If an experienced builder gets in there after a good push he has all the protection he needs and all the backwall to place blocks. The doors can be blocked of quick and he has a nice shot at the flag. I like to keep my flag room disconnected from other things.

    Of course there are some basic things you always need in a base that are there no matter what like the flag room and the front wall and shops. But one thing I would add to the list that most people don't think of is having a high position that is hard to block off behind the flag. This way whenever builders get on top of the flag room you can always get to them no matter what. Also @Blue_Tiger has made me realize that having doors on both sides of the flag room is a wise idea. It is 3x easier to get rid of rats coming from the front.

    On a good note there are a few things on here that I agree with: there is only one good reason to have a open knight shop and that's if it is used offensively and made for quick kegs. Otherwise take the extra 10 seconds to put a roof over it.

    In conclusion there is no perfect base however there are some things that are 9 out of 10 times necessary. Don't keep to a set of rules or you will be figured out by competent players. I am interested in what people have to say about how I think of this. It is an interesting topic to talk about.
    Blue_Tiger and Didgedy like this.
  4. Didgedy

    Didgedy Arsonist

    I agree with a high position behind flagroom, and I definitely agree with doors on both sides of the flagroom, but it is too controversial to do so without wasting a bunch of time arguing, or having someone end up removing your doors. If flagroom front doors are gonna be placed, I would strongly suggest adding some sort of trap either behind or under the doors.
    mcrifel likes this.