[265] playing "in the pocket" vs conventional archery duels

Well I've had no problems playing this way to be honest, more archers on their side just makes for more kills for the knights your helping out, providing you actually have a builder supporting you too.

 

umm... WE HAD NO KNIGHTS... EVERYONE WAS AN ARCHER...

 

Ooh archer tips.
Well,2 other things that every archer do.
My 2 cents.
As archer dont waste all your time cutting trees and scavenging arrows for the following disadvantages.
Time,youll be run over easily and then youll see what you wasted.
Contribution,get killed by the enemy and they will use it on you.
And finally,if you arent just shooting in a general direction,youll get cash to buy arrows LOTS AND LOTS of arrows.

Outposts/Catapults.
These are great sources of income even if you want to switch to melee,4 hits buy you 3 bombs(15G each hit) or 60 gold destroy one and swim in arrows.

 

I agree with that, tunnels are different environments that provide archers lots of advantages. Enemy knights can't jump over your own knights to kill you, so you are safe from swords. Jump bomb-throws can't be done, so you are pretty safe from bombs. Enemy archers can't hit you because knights are in front, so you are safe from arrows. And to make it even better, you don't have any accuraccy problem because all the opponents are lined up.
Using an archer in tunnels can undoubtedly be deadly for the enemy if you have knight support.

 

About arrow scavenging, I personally think it's worth your while to pickup stray arrows if they're close enough, if there's just been a massive archer duel and stuff has calmed down you can get yourself a decent amount of ammo pretty quickly. Just going out of your way is pointless. A few arrows off a tree can be useful when you haven't got anything better to do aswell, if you don't have knights infront of you, and your behind the cover of a tower with no-one to engage you might as well go cut a few arrows.

@ Darksteel, nice mature post there man, not like I could have misread your post or anything like that. Don't really see the connection between you playing like this and everyone on the server going archer anyway, it can happen regardless.

 

@AnRK sorry about that, but yeah for some reason whenever I go archer in the following mkinutes everyone else seems to be archer... granted it was proabably a coincidence.

 

So, I think it all boils down to one thing: Environment.

If the enemy's knights are better than yours, and you're pushed to the wall, you need to know how to defend. But while that's important, being able to push forward is important as well, if you don't you're not being a huge help to the rest of your team.

Tunnels being unsafe for archers is bunk if you're with knights, like Pickled said, but you're not totally mega dead if you're in a tunnel alone: I've used tricks successfully to get enemy knights to break their guard.

Finally, I'd say I agree most with AnRK and Contrary - there are times where you're (literally) fighting an uphill battle, where the enemy has been lobbing bombs into the base consistently (though not necessarily frequently) - if so: Read the situation and play accordingly; Think, "From where else could I shoot the enemy, that doesn't put me at a huge risk?"

Being brash is very fun indeed. But, it is very much a gamble at times, so just be aware of your chances.

 

I have been wanting to read this thread, but I never found time too until now.


What I do as an Archer:

Offensive:
I run out with or without knights, and I usually find my mark and defeat my prey. I chase ALL forward builders until they are dead. I deal with the threat of knights by charging fully, and quickly spamming one arrow after they have their shield down.

Without Trees:
(This usually results in .5 or 1 heart of damage to the knight, (1 heart if your "spammed" arrow gets shot while you are above the knight, even by 1 tile) I do this when the knight approaching me is defensive). If the knight is offensive, I force him to go defensive by spamming arrows.

With Trees:
(Jumping from tree to tree, you keep yourself "airborne" because the knight literally can't punch the trees if you're spamming him to death). As soon as he stops trying to punch your trees, or looks like it, simply watch him while charging waiting for an opening. If he lets you fully charge, fire and immediately spam another arrow for a 1 heart hit.

Up Hill:
(Coming up to a hill is dangerous for anyone on the other side of the hill for me, because even if I can't see anyone, I am fully charging shots and lobbing them over the hill, I watch the +5 indicator and continue firing in 1 spot until I don't see anymore +5, then I move on to fire deeper into their base or closer to the hill). Try to arc so you follow the curve of the hill perfectly, then no knights can advance at all.

Down Hill:
(When atop a hill of death, simply hold the knights that you see, and go for any archer/builder that is unprotected, if you feel you can get lucky, (or are an amazing shot like me) you can try to fire at archers behind cover). Knights will usually cluster at a ledge or something, apparently safe. Just watch them and as soon as you see them move at all spam an arrow/start fully charging and spam an arrow right after you launch your fully charged shot. (Thus dealing 1 heart of damage).


Defensive:
Anymore, (since build 228) I hardly ever play defensive, but this is really useful for when you're dealing with other offensive archers, and or attacking an enemy tower, (yes you can be defensive out in the open).

Without Trees:
(Pretty much, if you're forced to go defensive out in the open, on flat ground you're screwed, however I have saved myself a few times by digging a small hole). If there is any kind of ground variation at all, find it and dig in, even if its a 1x1 stone block lying there from a previously destroyed tower, lay down behind it, and when the arrows stop flying over your head start digging in the dirt, as soon as you see another arrow coming, lay back down. Once you get your 2x2 hole, start lobbing arrows and hope you have a chance to retreat before an enemy overtakes you.

With Trees:
(If you're in the trees, and under attack by archers/knights, you need to deal with the most dangerous thing first and it goes in this order):
Close skilled knight with bombs, - as a note, it is sometimes advantagous to try to confuse the knight by staying close to him after he lights his bomb, I sometimes make him forget he has one and we both blow up. =D
Close skilled archer, - I hardly have time to fully charge arrows, so I usually spam/medium charge arrows at this point.
Close skilled knight, - While avoiding the knight in the trees, try to stay closer than you would think, and let him think he can hit you.
Close knight with bombs, - Unskilled knights usually throw bombs uncooked, if you think you can, pick it up and throw it at him!
Close archer, - Spam arrows/medium charge.
Close knight, - Deal with him by charging and letting an arrow out right after the charge, thus dealing 1 damage when above him.
Builder. - If this is your only threat, get above him in the trees and spam.

Deal with these situations as appropriate. By now you should know how I deal with knights. =S

Up Hill:
(I don't know why people usually freak out with up hill battles, all uphill battles do is allow the person on top to spam arrows more easily than below. but you can still usually get them with fully charged shots and medium charged shots). If I come up to a hill, and I know there are archers over the hill or on top, I usually begin by lobbing fully charged/medium arrows up there as I fall back. At this point it is very advantageous to use ledges to provide 85% protection.

Down Hill/Tower:
(I combined this section because, well they are kind of the same.) A good tower will give you an uphill advantage on all classes. You can also do this on a hill as well. I usually end up spamming the crap out of the mobs that come from below, because spam arrows do 1 heart from above. Once you get the knights on defensive, charge and spam 1 shot often, this will do 1 heart of damage to any lone knight below you if you're about 6-10 tiles from him. if you get too high above him he can get his shield back up before your spammed arrow can get to him.

It doesn't matter if you have cover or not as long as there are no enemy archers, as soon as you see an enemy archer watch him until he starts shooting for you and get behind cover. (on an open hill, you can dig a 2x2 hole or hide behind a ledge for quick cover. (pre-dig the hold if there is no ledge)). Wait until the enemy archer begins fully charging his arrows, and begin charging your fully charged arrow RIGHT before he fires his, when you do this you're setup to hit him with your arrow before he can shoot his. I usually fire a medium charge arrow directly after fully charged shots at a perfect lob to hit where my fully charged hit hits, this can take out the archer before he even recovers from the stun of a fully charged shot. (This takes a lot of practice). Also if the archer you're fighting has no cover, try lobbing medium shots. When you're up hill these can be deadly and hard to counter, because you can almost fire 2 and a half medium charged shots in the time it takes to fire a fully charged shot.





Keep in mind, I have no prior experience to archer from build 228, I have learned all of this on build 265+. Archers are much less foul-able than knights. They do their damage with an arrow that flies in a predictable manner. Whereas a knight. A slash is a slash. It hits or it doesn't. Lag, warping, and everything else effect the slash. Nothing, NOT EVEN LAG. Can effect a well placed arrow.

@ Carver, I'll still just run out into the open when we start dueling behind cover. Because I would rather avoid the 10 minute stale mate. =S

 

Regarding a lot of the points from the Big Guides in general, I wrote that info back when KAG was basically a completely different game, so a lot of it isn't applicable or tactically relevant anymore.

 

I think my wall text killed this discussion. Sorry.

:,{

 

Interesting thread. It definitely made me reconsider my playing style. But I don't think there's a "best" way to play archer; it's more about being adaptable and picking out the most important targets. Prioritise enemies that are threatening your team-mates. If you can put yourself "in the pocket" without any serious risk, then go ahead and do it.

 

There you just described the best way to play archer. Adaptability is a way. :D

 

That's exactly how I play archer! Virtual high five sir!
Ryan's TRIES to do that... But I always get him and he starts to QQ :) :) :) :)

 

I like hopping around as an archer. Constantly jumping and mashing the left/right button seems to make me harder to hit sometimes.