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[590]trap buildings, DO NOT build them

Discussion in 'Builder' started by killatron46, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    Again, putting this thread in the Builder Sub forum because it isn't about a specific building, as much as a specific building type.

    Trap Buildings.

    Lately I have been noticing quite a few of these in the critique section...

    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/590-the-force-trap.13029/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/590-head-poke.12623/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/590-spike-pit-tower.12655/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/590-one-way-rooms-and-my-fast-basic-traps.12811/

    I'm talking mostly of entire buildings devoted to one thing, trapping and or killing the enemy. Acavado traps don't really count because they can be added onto any normal building, I'm talking about why its bad to build a building for this one purpose.

    Instead of building your trap building, build a tower instead with the same resources and see which one does better. The tower will almost always last longer, stop more units, and allow your team to kill the enemy from safety more than the trap building.

    Trap buildings used to be super effective because one out of every ten players ever looked at the forums, and few people knew what traps even were. I remember when you could build one simple acavado and stand behind it going 25252525 and literally dozens of the enemy would instagib on a trap that only cost 50 stone and 10 wood (trap bridges were 10 wood back then).

    That time is passed, build a tower instead please. Thanks.

    EDIT: Fixed a grammar splurge.
     
  2. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    262
    Even though this is quite improbable. What happens if someone really discovers a new trap?
     
  3. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    2,508
    In Beta... There are traps.... Eheheheheheh.... :skull:
     
  4. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    I don't have an answer for you Force, as the community is so much different than it was back when Acavado first made his "discovery". You would think people would be more aware but I just don't know. The most effective "new" trap I've seen recently are Cacti, but they are kinda resource heavy for what they do, and not very safe.
    screen-13-04-05-20-21-44.png
    They work off of the assumption players will attempt to parkour over them, eventually they will make a mistake and... Find themselves in the desert so to speak. They are easily disabled by someone that is dedicated (just slashes the door instead of jumps over).
     
    CrystalClear, I3lue, Force and 2 others like this.
  5. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Almost every sort of new traps are all going to be based on the basic principle, which is spikes interacting with bridges, and no matter where yo put them, they won't be the main staple of your tower and never should be, they should simply be an addition to stop people from getting through/killing/hurting those who try. Defeating the trap however often leads to defeating the tower, and that is something you need to make sure doesn't happen when building.
     
    PumpkingSlice, LucasTT, Force and 2 others like this.
  6. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    Our most lethal traps are your minds, don't let us play with them. From here, everything sounds possible, even 1 single spike on the ground can kill dozens in a normal CTF pub.
     
  7. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    That or squeezing or teamdoors. Those are the main 3 elements.
     
  8. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    People need to start making good traps with water...
     
  9. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Funny you should mention that, I have a delightful one for Classic gold servers. Should get around to sharing it...
     
    BlueLuigi, Gofio and Guitarman like this.
  10. Conquerer

    Conquerer Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    360
    Are you talking about your trap bridge pit? Particularly nasty, from my one experience 'testing' it out for you. :|
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  11. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    I have a few myself to be honest, need to work on them a bit more, but water is pretty easy to kill with trap or not. There are definitely traps you can work on especially with darkness to dump people into water though in classic, very fun!
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  12. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    But now that you've made a neat little list of them, people will surely recognise them in-game.
     
    Force, Conquerer and BlueLuigi like this.
  13. But hey, not everyone is ridiculously stupid. They die from your spike trap once, they most likely won't do it again. In addition to the bomb weakness that nearly all spike traps have, would you really run straight into/through a spikey area? Would most of the players really run straight into/through a spikey area? Even 12 year olds will learn.

    Now compare that to making a tower with the same amount of resources you spent on this trap.
     
  14. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    You can't really compare towers to traps.
    Traps are used to kill people, towers to hold them back.
    You could compare their usefullness though.
     
  15. Not spike pits, traps. Traps aren't always used to kill people, because they fall for it once, they know not to do it again, they just wait there for a builder or bomb it, effectively holding them back.
     
  16. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    The main purpose of this thread was to remind people what they are supposed to be doing as a builder. Hindering the enemy as much as possible. Trap buildings rarely do this better than a tower, I just wanted to point this out.

    A bad tower (lets say 40% efficient) is better than a 80% efficient trap building. Here is a visual aid:
    screen-13-04-24-22-39-30.png
    As you can see, I'm the worst builder.

    The structure on the left represents an 80% efficient trap building, structure on the right represents a 20% efficient tower you would see in any public server. Lets examine them.

    The structure on the left can only be understood by 2-3 people, maybe on your team at any given time(assuming you're on a pub server), your teammates might look at it and say: "its bad, why is it like that?", you take a few infuriating seconds to explain to them, maybe they get it maybe they don't and grief it, who knows. Anyway the point is it just looks bad to newer players; they will want to "fix" it.

    Now the structure on the right. Tell me you've all seen one of these before right, maybe remember making a few recently?:D I sometimes just go spectator after 50 seconds in the build phase because the team I'm playing with has no concept whatsoever of building, (to my own standards). HOWEVER, the towers made by these "noobs" are often better than the "seasoned" builders attempts at trap buildings!

    If players would stop trying to make the "new Acavado", and just build towers... Good towers. Then we would have something.

    EDIT: Oh and, almost forgot, I used to make trap buildings too: https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/228-the-dog-house.2760/
    You guys are lucky you don't have to find out the hard way these don't work anymore by reading this thread.
    :rollseyes:
     
    Apronymous and BlueLuigi like this.
  17. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    262
    *Daddy's
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  18. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

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    You shouldn't build traps on servers with noobs though -.-
     
  19. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    They were having a normal discussion not insulting each other, no need to settle something that has not began.