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[753][Gen] Do you still find builder fun to play as?

Discussion in 'Builder' started by ComboBreaker, May 17, 2013.

  1. ComboBreaker

    ComboBreaker Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    392
    First of all - I know that everything is work in progress and there are lots of bugs to fix and balancing to polish so complaining is not valid in general.

    However,it seems that the current role of the builder is getting shifted because of the new mechanics.My main problems with KAB builders are :

    -Minecrafting is encouraged.In fact it is the only way to do things and to progress.Since everything useful requires gold you are forced to spend a lot of time scavenging,while less,MUCH less time actually fighting.
    -Destroying blocks does not give you resources back - so if you've accidently placed door in a wrong place,you will lose precious 50 stone.Prolonges resource hunting even more.
    -New "plant a tree - cut it down" system is a very annoying one.Sure,it is fun to plant trees when you are new to beta,but it quickly gets extremely tiresome.Again,more focusing on "minecrafting" , less on fighting.
    -It takes a lot of time to set bases up - placing blocks feels extremely clunky.Offensive building is next to impossible,thus there is a constant "dead zone" between 2 teams.
    -Since offensive building is hard to pull off - noone wants to go to the front as a builder and we get a crowd of derpy knights jumping under towers.
    -Although not a straight builder complaint but it is one of the new builder's job - Kitchen does not heal automatically.I'd say,turn it into healthkit dispencer - you can bring components to cook stuff,but only to bring it to the front for heals on the move.It should autoheal when you are inside like old bedroom did.At this moment it is easier to simply suicide then to chop grain,gather it and wait for bread to pop out.
    -Unintuitive block support system.Ladders count as empty space even when there is a background.I learned it the hard way =/
    -Builder is useless in fighting.I do understand why is that,but I think that 3 builders should have at least a slight chance to pick on 1 knight.Current situation is rediculous.
    -It takes a lot of time to set proper bases up - and a lot less time to destroy it.Drills,Kegs,everything spawns with a very short interval while beeing too effective at breaking defences - I've played a few matches and it was always the same - wave after wave of suiciders with kegs.Sooner or later you screw up - and your wall goes down in a matter of seconds.
    -It is very hard to make a tower that can be entered only by teammates - new "trapblocks" are very hard to use cost-effective.Although I like them,I really miss drawbridges.
    -And there are countless bugs,like opened doors collapsing stuff,inability to switch blocks sometimes,sometimes it is hard to make a workbench for no reason etc. Although Im sure that this will get fixed in future.

    So,if you've read this through congratulations.I wonder if you agree or disagree with stuff,I've stated above.
     
    Klokinator, SlyStalker, Viken and 7 others like this.
  2. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    I agree with all except:
    This was intentional by the devs to get rid of the massive towers being over powered in Alpha. I miss them too but take heart!

    Also, I feel like KAB and KAG are now two completely different games. I like KAG builder way more than KAB, but that is because its more fast paced and skill oriented, whereas in KAB its more about strategy, what things to build when ect. Also at this point its too early to judge as you pointed out, and things that are weird will be changed probably. Like what you said about trees and kitchens, I think there will be change there. We also have to consider is it a mechanic "weird" because we want it to be like KAG or because its bad?
     
    Evan5567 and UnnamedPlayer like this.
  3. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

    Messages:
    793
    The minecrafting definitely isn't fun. And the fact that you can't mass-produce stuff makes it even more annoying. Honestly, how is anyone EVER going to get healed when it's so tedious to put grain everywhere?
    Also, the trees need to drop a seed each time they are cut down. NEED. That way, you can just replant it as soon as you cut it down, but if you want a tree at a strategic location (for archers) you can still plant another wherever you want.

    Gold system is pretty annoying too. You can't get anything done without tons of gold. Need to be able to sell resources in exchange for gold. There should be a gold bonus for selling items stolen from enemies, too.
     
    bobotype likes this.
  4. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    This is more because of water and the uncertain height for jumping.

    Someone get to work on coding us a Quarters. Here is the art for it.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. GreenRock

    GreenRock Base Burner

    Messages:
    347
    Of course we want it to be like KAG. That's the game we paid money for. All this whole "it's a new game" argument is simply saying "deal with it." And it sorta sucks.
     
    SlyStalker, Gofio, 16th and 4 others like this.
  6. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    I didn't mean it to be derogatory at all. I play both KAB and KAG.

    I still like KAG better than KAB. ;)
     
    Klokinator likes this.
  7. ComboBreaker

    ComboBreaker Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    392
    I would also like to add that new blocks and new factory system limit player's creativity,since it forces stereotypical buildings.Every base looks the same - workbench on first floor with nursery,followed by floors with military stuff and door on a ground level.
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  8. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    No more than it did before. Efficient building also exists in KAG.

    I disagree, this has not been my experience.
     
  9. GreenRock

    GreenRock Base Burner

    Messages:
    347
    I wasn't trying to imply I was insulted, but w/e. I should probably vary my use of punctuation! That usually helps with tone? I dunno, man.

    I'm 99% sure the only people who like the beta more than classic are the devs anyway :p
     
    16th likes this.
  10. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Good thing you're only 99% sure GreenRock, since classic sucks compared to beta. The builders are a bit helpless in the frontlines, yes, but they should build forward structures with a barracks, not go zerg on the enemy knights.
    There's a fairly long respawn time. If your knights take care of the enemies, it will be easy to block the enemy exits and ladder your team up.
    The one and probably only thing I'd buff combat builders with is their attack arc towards players.

    About creativity being limited - Well, no, there is actually way more creativity involved with the siege weapons and saws and all kinds of traps. Did you know you can insert a spike inside a trap block, which damages enemies even when they only pass by?

    The warehouse approach is just the most popular one because it's the easiest, but there are much more ways to set up a good base than that. You clearly haven't done any research on this, just looked at the pub bases that repeat itself and then cry how limited the building is.
     
  11. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    actually i wish pub bases would repeat themselves more often because i keep seeing random shit layouts
     
  12. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Really? Almost every time I play I see a warehouse in the base, and a small tower without factories on the front.

    The bases in the jungle map seem to be really random though.
     
  13. Fate

    Fate Studying seashells

    Messages:
    593
    I find builders more accessible to play because of the slow-pacedness. Although I agree that that you should be able to reclaim at least some resources when destroying blocks. The current system gives a very strategical feel to the resource gathering. The entire team going to cut trees in the beginning gives this very interesting feeling of teamwork. In classic, I'd just switch to archer or knight immediately because of the power good buildings had, I was just so bad at it. It's a lot easier to be a supportive builder in KAB.

    I find it very difficult to hit enemies with a pickaxe though, it seems to miss most of the time.
     
    Apronymous likes this.
  14. Omen267901

    Omen267901 Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    80
    Funny thing is, I killed like 3 archers as builder yesterday (They were derp archers who didn't even know how to stab.) X3


    I personally think builders are a bit useless in combat situations now. Unless knights can stall the enemy for a while, building on the front line is almost impossible. Also, I agree that you should get some resources back.
    Mod for resource regain anyone? Wish I could code.
     
  15. Invaders

    Invaders Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    249
    I feel like it fits the role more, but is less fun. In reality, builders would be the backbone of a war effort, not ninjas flying around the battlefield erecting stone towers through sheer force of will.
     
    PinXviiN likes this.
  16. ComboBreaker

    ComboBreaker Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    392
    ...Also in reality you cant climb walls using arrows,fly around by shielding from explosions,glide using heavy wooden shield with metal patches or heal wounds by eating bread...Yeah,reality sucks

    I guess situation will get better once they will introduce some ways to build close to the front effectively.Like factories with armor,bucklers that break after shielding from 1 blast etc.
     
    SirLoading likes this.
  17. 16th

    16th Bison Rider

    Messages:
    254
    Not find it fun to play at all. Knights get new awesome fight system, archers become assassins and builders... was totally f.cked up. :>:(:
     
  18. Canadian98

    Canadian98 Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    860
    Am I the only one who actually finds it fun to build the base, gather resources, and plant trees?
     
    dym7774 likes this.
  19. goodyman8

    goodyman8 Bison Rider

    Messages:
    1,025
    The kitchen would really get better if they removed the food limit, at least then you could put them into a storage without someone else screaming about where the food is.
    Also, you could always get some fish on the water maps.
    They are pretty common and you don't need to cook them to eat them.
     
  20. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,316
    It has its own fun, but it's a different Builder' fun than the Kag one. I find it funny as well, and that small idea of advancing into technology feels nice. Some KAG gold servers had this kind of upgrading system for shops, well, for Demolition workshops, requiring you to get like 250 stone and 300 coins to get the best...

    KAB builder has more tasks to take care about, while at KAG it was about making defenses, gathering resources, assist and attack. I clearly like more the KAG builder profile -needless to say I always played it and it's what i developed thru most of the game builds I played. Not only for the gameplay, but also for the pace and the accuracy at building stuff. In Alpha i can build surprisingly fast comparing to Beta, which has an uneasy block laying and slow block type selection.

    But, as they stated, Beta is changing its direction a bit. I miss the CTF -most of the WAR games I've played ended up with a nextmap vote, WAR needs a new balance-, i mean, arrows, bombs, a few tiles, catapults if so and fast building. In Beta that's not possible right now. I'd like to have a kind of 'lite' WAR game mode, which would be as CTF, with smaller amount of needs to fight and joust.

    This is still on development so I believe things are getting better and better, as it happened with BETA builds.