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[893][Gen] Why does everyone have a negative... Tunneling Discussion

Discussion in 'Classes & Mechanics' started by amgtree, Sep 27, 2013.

?

Whats you opoinon on it

  1. I don't see this as a problem

    42 vote(s)
    62.7%
  2. OMG I'M, AH, DIS BORKEN

    9 vote(s)
    13.4%
  3. i <3 TUNNLING

    16 vote(s)
    23.9%
  1. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    Why does everyone hate tunneling. I hear people say it ruins the whole game. I rarely ever see this and when I do I just invade it or flood it. I can't see this as a problem so kag people plwesse elaborate.
     
    butterscotch likes this.
  2. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    I don't know what you are on about, I fucking love tunnelling.
     
    GloriousToast and 101i like this.
  3. Shadowofgold

    Shadowofgold Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    98
    I rarely hear anyone speak of tunneling, and when someone actually DOES tunnel some people get happy because it reminds them of the fun days when it was an active thing in almost every game.

    It felt like there were two battlefields that needed to be watched, sort of like lanes in a DOTA type game or something. And I know some people might not be happy with that comparison, but w/e.
     
  4. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    Oh I'm not complaining about tunneling I'm just wondering why some people absolutely hate it.
     
  5. jackitch

    jackitch :(){ :|: & };: Global Moderator Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    249
    I think one reason why some people hate tunneling is that it doesn't really require much / if any skill, it's just a brute-force way to get into enemy territory. Also keep in mind that there aren't a lot of veteran players that use tunneling as a strategy.

    Who does though? The new guy, who thinks it would be a great idea to tunnel from your farthest back spawn all the way to the front line :/ We always used to punish those guys severely on Action because it often turned the tide of a battle once the enemy got to the tunnel.

    It can also be disheartening to find that you were beat by a team who had a single player capture your hall / flag by sneaking under your base and evading all of your well-built defenses. I don't think the game was designed to be won this way, however, it's still a 'feature' and can be fun sometimes I'll agree (eg. Have your whole team make one 2-block tall tunnel from one side of the map to the enemy flag).

    My solution,

    Change team to be on cozakura's side :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  6. Tunnels are fairly easily defended with spikes. Especially if the enemy team neglects to bring light sources and blunder straight into a spike nest - but yeah, I get that some people dislike the whole 'lol I tunnel from one side to the other'.

    Though, with regards to the players who tunnel from spawn to spawn, it would be fairly simple to make a bedrock layer that prevents spawn from being tunneled to totally - allowing defenses to have to be breached, and preventing an entirely easy way of winning /losing the game.
     
  7. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    Tunneling just ruins the game. Once you acceded enemy base, being flooded is not a problem: Take stone for doors and a lot of sponges and you're done. They block it? No problem, drill and you're done.
    That is why I love placing a hundred of bedrock blocks at middle of my maps, hah
     
    ZeldaMarioDude likes this.
  8. Ratka

    Ratka Shipwright

    Messages:
    158
    Well, if used right it is a good strategy. In other words, don't let the noob finish his damn tunnel. I am fine with it if it is being used properly, as I enjoy any tactic which can be used to brutally murder the enemy team. However, I have to somewhat agree with Asu, it doesn't make a fun game as it is an easy tactic. Cave fighting is one thing, tunneling with a horde of knights is another.
     
    Asu likes this.
  9. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

    Messages:
    793
    The main reason why people hate it is because it's really dang effective while requiring very little skill to accomplish. I mean come on - who can't dig a hole?
     
  10. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    Well if you seen TB's wtf is kag vid you could see that there a person could have trouble digging a hole. I think this is a matter of dedication vs skill when it comes to tunneling.
     
  11. Yeah, I have to say, the very first time I played I couldn't figure out why I wasn't going through bedrock when I tried to mine it - i assumed it just took a shitload more hits than normal.
     
  12. MCrypa

    MCrypa Haxor

    Messages:
    562
    When somebody decides to build a tunnel, it requires a lot of time. Let's say one builder decides to make a long tunnel to the enemy flag. The team that is building the tunnel then has to live with one less player defending on the surface. There is no clear advantage until the tunnel is actually finished, only disadvantages. Even when you finish a tunnel, it is not effective unless many players are willing to utilize that tunnel.

    Also, this strategy heavily relies on the advantage of surprise. If, by chance, the tunnel is spotted while digging and is accessed by the enemy, the tunnel will instead give the advantage to the enemy because there is no risk for them. The tunnel is 1) not finished, 2) does not lead to their base, 3) leads to the origin of tunnel (often close to base) All efforts will be lost too, and the team digging the tunnel will have wasted their time.

    If the tunnel gets to the enemy base/behind lines, even then, the advantage only lasts for a little while. After the first initial wave is over, the enemy can effectively close off the tunnel or even take it over. So unless the team building the tunnel has strong defenses and is able to cause a lot of damage using the first wave, the tunnel strategy really serves no purpose.

    Lastly, you can often see a lot of knights following a builder while digging a tunnel. The whole tunnel process is a huge investement both in the starting phases and during the operation itself. This severely weakens the defenses on the surface. It is a lot quicker to just ladderspam over towers than it is to dig a tunnel through countless dirt blocks. Therefore, the enemy team will have the advantage because their units are not spread, but rather focused on one battle ground - until the tunnel is finished that is. However, by the time the tunnel is finished, the enemy team will have made considerable advances on the surface, and defending against a tunnel attack is not necessarily difficult.

    So, the reason many people might dislike the tunneling strategy is because when pulled off badly, it can lead to the loss of the entire match; there is a considerable amount of risk. Often, there is one person that does not notify the team and just starts digging. In best case scenarioes, the team notices and some knights join in. However, there are many times where nobody actually sees the tunnel and the enemy just spots a single builder digging beneath their base. The enemy quickly overruns the tunnel and gains a significant advantage. This can be very frustrating and you often see people yelling at these 'diggers'

    Note; might not include all reasons as to why tunneling is disliked, but at least some main points. Also, this is mostly centered around classic KAG, but some points might still be valid in Beta [Did not realize this was in the Beta section, derp]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
    crackwise and amgtree like this.
  13. ZeldaMarioDude

    ZeldaMarioDude Tree Planter

    Messages:
    48
    I don't like tunneling. Mostly like this: While we're fighting brucely on the surface, they're tunneling through our defences like a pussy.
     
  14. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    But this game is no always about fighting. Sometimes the fighting just turns into a stalemate when no one can push up and a builder has to step up. I know they could just build a better infrastructure, but sometimes people just have to resort to tunneling. Anyways its somewhat impossible now with all bedrock in the vannila maps.
     
  15. ZeldaMarioDude

    ZeldaMarioDude Tree Planter

    Messages:
    48
    Thats some positive thinking. But I rarely see him talks.
     
  16. Invaders

    Invaders Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    249
    I like it because it adds kind of a third dimension to a fight, it also is *really* cool to have a battlefield pockmarked with the ruins of old defenses and bombed tunnels, I'm just sayin'.
     
  17. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    Yeah, i agree with @MCrypa , tunneling takes far too many resources from your team, and once that initial breakthrough is over, is then immediately rendered useless if the enemy has a quick-acting builder. If started in a bad location, it can even turn the tide of the game, and lead the enemy straight into your base. It's too much risk to be a viable strategy, unless your team is completely dominating above ground. Even then, you could just mine out their defenses, or ladderspam over them. Would do the same job, and take much less time.
     
  18. SeanAS

    SeanAS Meth Addict Donator
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    206
    Good point @The_Trumbles Good to see you engaged in conversation. But back to your point, tunneling IMO is one of the worst strategies. Tunneling in most games leads to the "Tunnelers" defeat, because it takes too long depending on the size of the map, and the fact that once to you make it to the other side the whole enemy team is waiting for your arrival.
     
  19. SirSammy

    SirSammy Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    202
    I have no problem with people tunneling. It makes the game more exciting imo. People are going to bitch about it though, and bitchers will be bitchers.
     
  20. JTG

    JTG Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    114
    The problem with tunneling is people usually start it in a relatively safe, and important spot in your teams defenses and it gets opened up in a unneeded and unsafe spot the enemy are swarming, resulting in a bunch of enemy knights entering a tunnel some builder just spent the entire match digging around your shops blowing everything up.

    Tunnels are fine, but the people who tunnel start them in the absolute worst places possible, tunneling in front of your towers and defenses is fine, people will enter it and if the enemy gets it they won't be anywhere important, but people want to tunnel inside of your towers and defenses to the enemy resulting in a giant disaster nearly akin to griefing, in how upset it makes everyone that someone on their own team just gave the enemy a clear path through the defenses.
     
    Knighthart and hierbo like this.