[939][Gen] Water Ammo Discussion

Shields block normal bombs, why not just make the shield block the water bomb? You can still stun a group with a quick toss, but people with quick reactions can avoid it.

I personally don't really see the use of a waterbomb, since a normal bomb is both cheap and far more useful. You can still take care of groups or at least severely cripple them, and they are used to easily get over structures. I don't think the waterbomb is overpowered, but I do believe it ruins the pace of the gameplay. Alpha was slow paced and generally sluggish, something I despised about it. Beta is face paced, and feels fucking great. but waterbombs can make a fight boring, and leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

yes archers need some kind of stun because of their squishyness and utility.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2013, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2013 ---

Thats another really good idea monsteri, i was thinking water bombs should act just like normal bomb which dont explode on impact. like i was saying if it were to do that water bombs would become a more reasonable tool that requires skill to use instead of an easy to land annoying as all hell instastun mechanic that teams tend to use all the time just to annoy the shit out of you.

 

I also approve of making water stun items exclusive to the archer.

Here's an idea: if thrown from a high height, water bombs break and explode instantaneously. Otherwise they have a timed explosion. I'm not sure if that could be applicable for water bomb arrows too. That seems elegant as a kind of compromise, right? No way that will end up in the game. Heh.

 

I think a timed explosion exactly like a normal bomb would balance water bombs. None of that explode on impact bs

 

"Honestly, I do not believe "1 skilled guy trumps everything" is a fun design pattern for a team game."

This was a quote I was happy to see from Geti...Being those single skilled guys are what ruin matches for me.

But yeah, I actually don't see the big problem with water ammo, it is 30 coins that could be used on something else and I've never had a hard time avoiding getting killed by them. And heck, I feel it is necessary to have if it keeps the pro players at bay on normal matches, if we are going to have a mixed skill community(although I feel a level based system is kinda needed) the lower skill players need a chance...Of course like Geti said, just disable it for actual clan matches or something.

The biggest suggestion to dodge it is simply to get as far away from the holder as possible so the time runs out, while holding your right mouse button to instantly shield when the stun is over. Heck, don't clans spend time training? Maybe just work on learning the best dodge strategies or how to catch and throw it back instead of complaining.

 

how are we ruining matches for you? by winning... i dont know why you would call one guy beeing better ruining the match

 

My problme isnt with noobs using water, its with other skilled players using them and spamming them becuase they know how redic it is

 

@kedram
I've had games where everything is going enjoyably well, could be winning, could be losing(but attempting to turn things around), but then everything goes downhill when a single pro logs in. It isn't so bad when there are equal amounts of them...but they sure can off-balance games.

If they are on my team(assuming the other team doesn't have a player of equal skill to them) then the game becomes a bit too easy and a bit less enjoyable. If they are on the enemy team(again assuming now my team doesn't have someone to match their strength) then no matter how well I play I still deep down know that we are going to lose...It gets so frustrating when the defenses are great and here comes someone bombjumping in, blowing a holes in the walls, destroying shops, finding or breaking into the knight shops and lighting kegs everywhere, spawncamping, or just negating all the defenses and quickly grabbing the flag and leaving. Of course they don't do all this at once...normally...but what gets to be a pain is them doing it over and over...or singlehandedly wrecking the frontline...or anything else...

It is also just unfun to die repeatedly to the same person...

 

it honestly has to do with having the high ground and not leaving the high ground untill you swarm ten guys on it. if i get over your tower with a bomb jump then its your fault i got over. it clearly want tall enough.therefore you deserve to have your towers destroyed and be killed over and over. also protect the knight shop. if i try to use bombs to get in then the shop will be destroyed before i can get to it.unless you use wood then i can get in without bombs. but its your fault if you have unprotected shops lying around.

 

Crabmaster i know what you mean, but, what are we supposed to do? Not play? Sit around and not try? What i usually do is play archer when there isnt any good players on the opposing team. Eventually i hope there are some servers only for good players so this situation wont have to be a problem

 

Yeah, I realize this, it is a kinda frustrating and sad part of the community being small right now. If it were bigger maybe things like servers could be sorted into player skill level or something so it would be easier to choose matches of people with equal skill...I've had a few ideas about this sorta thing and balance such, but I guess for now we just have water ammo to try and survive with...eheh. I do wish things were fair for both pros and average players...

Also Kedram, some maps don't even allow building high enough to defend against a single bomb jump let alone a double bomb jump, and a single bomb jump can get you up about 25 blocks high, on top of that tall towers are expensive(and again, it depends if the map allows you to both build high enough and to have enough stone). Your reply to me sounds a lot like "I am a lot more skilled but it is your fault anyway".

Also this is getting off-topic a bit...though water ammo is related to letting normal players hold their own...

 

i see what you mean. some maps in my opinion suck ass because of stone shortages and just plain bad landscaping. i really think the build time should be longer so that matches last longer and therfore are much more fun to play. im sorry i came off sounding like a pretentious douchebag ;-;. but water ammo really does need to have a timer on it instead of its insane explode on impact one.

 

And I am sorry for getting kinda snappy.

Also yeah, I can agree with that. Imagine if we had bombs explode on impact? Oh gosh now I wanna have server mod that in just to prove how bad impact bombs would be...

 

yea that would be cool i wonder if its ever gonna happen tho xD

 

I dont even know why this turned into something like this. Both sides not budging (@Geti being a shitter kiwi scrub tier player), I've already modded 's &'s to cost 10k on my servers so players who are skilled aren't cheaply killed by shit mechanics that keep getting buffed.

 

Haha I like what happened to the bombs. Ked won't stop complaining about them.

 

You know what I don't really get? How are people so bad at KAG? It doesn't take a lot of skill, you just run at people and slash them. The other day I was playing Blazblue and I was just astounded by how everyone I fought had a great degree of skill. With the exception of maybe one player I fought every single one had quick reflexes and strong decision making, employing complicated strategies, spacing attacks with great precision and anticipating my actions. In other high skill games like TF2 and Starcraft you see great displays of manual dexterity and thought from much of the playerbases, executing demanding build orders, hitting difficult headshots, microing dozens of units or juggling enemies with rockets.

All I do in KAG is run up and slash people. How is that so hard?

 

Well in my own defense, my A button is a bit wonky, my RMB is unreliable, and sometimes I just make bad decisions.

 

Its not that its hard, it just the combat is so unforgiving, you can make one mistake and be killed instantly. If a new player verses a decent player then the new player is doomed to fail, due to not knowing the timing or pace of the combat. KAG is one of the least newbie friendly games I know.