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[939] To build doors, or not to build doors?

Discussion in 'Builder' started by Kriegson, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Kriegson

    Kriegson Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    13
    I'm not sure if door blocks are any more resilient than normal blocks, but it certainly seems to have a psychological effect. When most people are faced with a wall (early game without kegs) they try to scale it. Likewise some teammates are gifted in that they think trying to run outside to kill a knight as a builder, while he's standing right next to the door is a brilliant idea. Thus letting him in.

    While building ways back in without doors can be relatively tricky, it can be done and once the team is used to it it seems to work better. Knights always have to climb, thus attacking from above for greater advantage, special players have less ways of inadvertently letting enemies in, and until kegs start flying around they are less inclined to try attacking the wall itself.

    But, of course doors on ground level means our guys getting in, out and through faster. A way to climb back up the wall won't necessarily work while holding the flag.

    So doors on outer wall, yea or nay?
     
    Saigon likes this.
  2. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    No. 8 blocks height.
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  3. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Ground level doors = never unless you have no other option. Teammates are fucking stupid and let the enemy in, everytime. "OH GOD THERE'S A KNIGHT OUTSIDE THE STONE WALL AND HE DOESN'T HAVE BOMBS! I HAVE TO BASH HIM TO DEATH BEFORE HE DOES NOTHING AT ALL!" - Noob Builder 01

    Monsteri is right, 8 blocks up should be your doors. (Actually I prefer 6, and include a trap block on the inside and outside at 4 blocks height so teammates can get in/out with little difficulty.)

    However yes, stone doors are stronger than stone blocks.
     
    Souji_ToxicSword12 likes this.
  4. Downburst

    Downburst Mindblown Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,814
    Ground level doors are not so bad at the current version of KAG as doors are way harder to destroy than stone blocks. Especially with bombs. (not kegs)
     
    Gurin, Contrary and butterscotch like this.
  5. steve_jobs

    steve_jobs Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    134
    Ok. I'm just gonna say, a stupid person can let the enemy in doors that are eight blocks up just as easy as they can let them through ground level doors.


    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door: :stone_door:
    :stone_door: :stone_door:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    for a structure like this, you can slash up, then push them in with your shield (assuming its a builder or an archer)I've done it many times before.
     
  6. steve_jobs

    steve_jobs Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    134
    please, please, please.
    don't put no entrance to your tower. To many times have I been rushing back with the flag, with only one heart. I just make it to the base, and...
    I cant get in. somebody decided that his tower would be a slab of useless stone.

    Instead of saying: doors let people in, get rid of them.
    say: doors let people in, I should probably find a new way to build my tower.

    people like you stifle innovation.
     
  7. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    People use boulders to break open doors these days.
     
  8. Darksteel

    Darksteel The see me Boulderin', they hatin'. Donator
    1. Australians United Stand Strong - AUSS - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    565
    >.>... Who would ever do that? <.<


    Me thats who
     
  9. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    JPD likes this.
  10. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    No defense best defense.
     
    Sir_Walter and 101i like this.
  11. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    Exactly ;)
     
  12. PandemicCommander

    PandemicCommander Shipwright

    Messages:
    137
    Elevated doors seem to be the way to go here. Ideally with some trap blocks to climb up.

    An idea I'm toying with though, is building doors into the base of a thick tower that dont go all the way through.

    Something like this:

    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt:

    The idea here is that when the lower part of a tower gets kegged or sapped it ends up like this:

    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall:
    :stone:
    :dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt:

    And is pretty tough to repair, plus enemy knights tend to duck inside for shelter, or builders seal themselves in.
    This way you end up with something like this:

    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :castle_wall::castle_wall:
    :stone_door:
    :stone_door:
    :dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt:

    That you can pop through to repair in response to damage.

    Your thoughts?
     
    ThePiemaster likes this.
  13. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    1)Boulders 1hko several sets of doors
    2)Ground level doos are terrible.

    Why? Because it is also possible for error to allow people to pass through the tile. A tile that cannot be passed without requiring 1 bomb, or a catapult, or some other such thing is much better than a tile that can be opened in error, especially when we're talking KAG. (Especially when the door has it's own weaknesses too).

    A door high enough up that it's hard to reach will work much better. High doors, best doors. (Archers will still wreck you, try to consider positioning of the doors for this if possible, also use some platforms so that archers can boulder as effectively, as they can't break said blocks without fire arrows, and can't position well enough to throw the boulder if made right):
    Your knights can easily get in still using the boost block by heading under the tile, but momentum to break the doors with a boulder is hard to get. Therefore they're too high for a knight to easily break in with but are also secure from archers bouldering them open.

    This isn't the be all end all, it's just one idea I have, the above posted idea by Pandemic is something I usually leave just the regular wood doors on halls for (TTH), building stone outside of them, if need be and it gets breached at bottom it lets you have some leeway, better than spending the time breaking them to put down stone anyway.

    Platforms facing LEFT. :workshop: = TRAP BLOCK

    :bridge::stone_door:
    :bridge::stone_door:
    :blank::castle_wall:
    :blank::castle_wall:
    :blank::castle_wall:
    :workshop::castle_wall:
    :blank::castle_wall:
    :blank::castle_wall:
    :blank::castle_wall:
     
  14. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    While it is definitely much harder to break doors that are placed in that matter, an archer can break them with boulders by coming in at an angle, either from above or below (tested).

    For this to work properly, you'd have to build the door high enough that knights cannot slash the platforms whatsoever. This would require the doors to be around 15 blocks high.

    The other problem is trap blocks. Boulders and knight attacks can easily break trap blocks, so you would have to constantly replace the trap ladder if the wall is under attack.

    I've gotten it down to breaking this type of door setup in two hits as archer.
     
  15. PandemicCommander

    PandemicCommander Shipwright

    Messages:
    137
    Yeah, wood's probably the way to go for what I was saying.
     
  16. emasame

    emasame Bison Rider

    Messages:
    122
    if you plant doors on the bottom im pretty sure a keg explosion would destroy them through the tower
     
  17. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    I honestly don't expect to build anything that you couldn't break though. In classic you could build stuff that couldn't be broken, here there is always an option, no matter what, whether it be boulders, bombs, bomb arrows, fire arrows or kegs, there is nothing that simply won't break (other than bedrock), or that is hard enough and can be repaired.
     
  18. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    Yeh... It's pretty sad. =/

    It's literally impossible to make boulder proof doors that your own team can still pass through both ways.
     
  19. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Honestly for TTH, they don't need to come back in though, fuck those guys.
     
  20. Downburst

    Downburst Mindblown Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,814
    It seems harder to break a door with boulders if the doors are placed in the wrong direction.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2014 ---
    Does TTH have boulders?