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A indestructible block/backwall that players cant build on

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by SirDangalang, Sep 17, 2017.

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Mods: Rainbows
  1. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    To define the title I would like to see a block and back wall type that allows the ability for mapmakers to create no build zones (i.e you can't build off these blocks).

    The block and back wall type would be indestructible like mossy stone providing a way to shape the map in a define way whilst also providing it's initial function.

    Reasons why I think this is a good idea:
    • The ability to create TDM style combat and game play within a CTF map:

      This can allow for a section of the map to favour archers and knights to roam freely and restrict a builders ability to lock down all routes the map provides = more divergent map designs :B):

    • Encourages innovation in map design:

      Me and Joop among others like to make "shit maps" that encourage a certain gimmick or challenge such as race maps or different kinds, maps that restrict playing as certain classes etc. :rekt:

      I think a block and back wall type like this could open up so many possibilities to make maps that are fun to play on as well as competitively interesting :smug:
    As an example a block/back wall type like this would make maps like below easier to produce:
    https://forum.thd.vg/threads/coinflip.27289/
     
    FG, toffie0, Clev and 11 others like this.
  2. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    Make it a mod. Would make no sense to have on official maps.
    It's not intuitive in any way to have such a block / backwall.
     
  3. Ni

    Ni Battle Angel Global Moderator Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Donator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. Active Forum Users

    Messages:
    433
    Sounds good to me. :gold_bullion::smug:
    I like the idea of "combat zones"
     
  4. mcrifel

    mcrifel Haxor Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    How would it make no sense to have it used on an official map? This allows for more creative maps which I see as a good thing.
     
  5. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    Do I have to answer that? It's even written in the OP: "Shit maps".
    How's it intuitive that there are solid blocks / backwalls you can't build on?
     
  6. mcrifel

    mcrifel Haxor Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Shit maps doesn't mean they are bad maps, its just a name we had for weird creative maps that we used to host.

    Could you give an example of how it's not intuitive? As far as I can see, one of the issues may be that bad map makers make maps that nerf builder and make it less enjoyable to play that class. But that's why we have map moderators. I think it creates more variety in maps and in game play.

    Has there ever been a map that doesn't favor builders? This allows for areas where the knights and archers are more important than the builder. Its a combat zone that can't be blocked off by a builder.
     
  7. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    This is a good idea. It would add an extra dimension to the map, allowing the creator to define how it should be played out by creating different paths or "conflict areas"
     
    bru-jaz and SirDangalang like this.
  8. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    I'm unsure about it, because how do you make it intuitive? How can you tell that a tile shouldn't be able to carry a building (also without collapsing)? You could, in part, argue that other things in the game behave that way, such as the CTF flag post, but they're special, and they're not tiles. If you could come up with a special "material" that makes it intuitive, then maybe. Sand? Lava? Mud? In either case, I too would have to lean towards the make-a-mod answer. There's really no such thing in vanilla KAG. Yet, anyway.
     
  9. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    Shit maps as in the gimmick maps they create that limit classes(IE aminlostthecoinflip map that is cancerous digging). It doesnt mean that all maps that have these suggested blocks would necessarily be bad. Id personally suggest using sand as this block if this idea gets polish/support/more ideas. I dont see anything wrong with having a "solid" block that isnt stable enough to build on. I do see how some of the maps could use it incorrectly, but the idea itself isnt wrong.
    I dont think materials need to be added to have more block variety. It's fine having mossy blocks that cant be crafted and id be fine with others. "Make-A-Mod" answer is just a really polite way of saying no so i always lean away from it.
     
    SirDangalang and mcrifel like this.
  10. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I like the idea. Make a mod and see how it plays out.

    It would be interesting to have other special blocks like the no-grapple-blocks like in Teeworlds. Or adding a sand type block like Terraria that can discourage tunneling. Or lava for the same reason. It would add variety that will make KAG a lot more interesting.

    :thumbs_up:
     
  11. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    Just as a clarification of the OP that I missed since the above quotes skirted around it, this block/back wall would only be available to map makers and would not be something that a builder could place in-game under normal means.

    Also I like already that whilst discussing with Fuzzle and on this thread we've identified the issue of how could it fit naturally into the game play so that it's obvious how the block would function to new players.

    I think Vermilicious hit the nail on the head though that this block would be a "material" that would have the properties of being unbreakable and a uneven foundation to build on. My idea is that it would be a igneous rock like granite that's too hard to break with a pick and that with it's natural formation would be a uneven foundation to build structures on.

    Honestly the path to see whether something like this works would be to test it in a mod anyway.
    With no experience myself I hope to ask around and get it running on a server and we'll see how it changes the meta towards more interesting game play if it does. However the dream would let a feature like this to be more accessible for players to use without having the barrier to entry to dabble in modding.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    Koveltskiis, bunnie and mcrifel like this.
  12. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    I agree that trying to use something existing would be best, but I don't think any of the current ones fit well. Edit: Actually there are a few tiles in the world texture that look like sand.

    When I say it might be better as a mod, I'm not doing so because I think it's a bad idea, necessarily. I know that Geti & Co will most likely dismiss suggestions like these, because they are so far from necessary for what KAG is today. There's no plan of evolving KAG. Not anymore. That's the reality we face, no matter what we, the community, think. At the same time, I understand their view, to a certain degree. I have mentioned in topics previously, that I think there are several features missing that should've been there. One of those is a way for mappers to achieve more through things like a more advanced image format with layers. I've also mentioned I think map makers should be allowed to define no-build zones, which sort of relates to this suggestion. I've also been frustrated by how complicated it is to add something as "simple" as a new block type or material. The bar is quite high when it comes to modding this game, and it is not only because scripting is hard.

    I'm not sure it it's a particularly good fit, but bedrock is certainly unbreakable already. Some maps may already rely on bedrock being enabled to build upon though.
     
    mcrifel likes this.
  13. blackjoker77777

    blackjoker77777 Haxor Tester
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    441
    I'm interested in making that into some simple mod (NoBuilderZone.zip), that way you'd manage to try it out on some server and prove your point.
    The thing I'm presenting here is buggy a bit (in a funny way -if you figure out what I mean-) and anyone is free to edit/fix/do whatever thing with it (even though I think it's acceptable in its current state).
    I provided a testing map inside the mod, so you could simply add the mod, run it and get to the no-build zone (in the middle) to tinker with it.
    The color of the no-building-zone blob (which I named "nobuilder" for no clear reason) is the same color of the dummy, since that never gets used in map-making anyway [ARGB(255, 231, 140, 67)].
    I wished if I could have made it better but I'm already lacking free time, however I'm interested in making it better as long as any of you does, so feel free to give any sort of feedback about it and I'll see what I can do.
     

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