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About Autobalance

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shadowor, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Unless people switched manually. Some people do that. And there usually is a flow of new players, it's just not very constant.

    But you are right, there would be a LOT more unbalanced games. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, because they will usually end quickly and move on to the next one, but then I feel like every game ever would end because of unbalanced teams, and that would be no fun.
     
  2. M00SHAK

    M00SHAK Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    32
    When that auto balance messages starts coming up, I go into a "I MUST NOT DIE." mode. Because I'm always the first to die... I agree it should be players that have joined more recently. So you don't get too upset when you lose half the map that was yours.
     
  3. Bint

    Bint Haxor

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    536
    Is it not based on score as well?
     
  4. Shadowor

    Shadowor Shark Slayer

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    184
    Not score, no priority, no queue, no matter who you are, if you die first after the message pops you welcome your brand new team you just wrecked...
     
  5. Bint

    Bint Haxor

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    536
    I very rarely get swapped but when I do it seems like it's when I've joined recently and am at the bottom of the scoreboard, maybe I was just dying alot lol
     
  6. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    240
    What about making respawn timers longer for teams that have more players?
     
  7. Leo

    Leo Bison Rider

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    503
    This won't work as players will just leave the server. Nobody will wait, let's say one minute, to join the game again
     
  8. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    1,443
    I say we just remove autobalancing. Why? Here's why.

    When a team gets splattered all over the wall by a pro rekker, 4 guys leave and the teams are imbalanced. Now, in an ideal world, to me, the winning team comes in, cleans up shop, ends the match within 2 minutes, and a new match starts. Do you see what this avoids? Here's a hint: It's called a stalemate.

    In our current world though, pro rekker comes in, wipes out the base, 4 guys leave, and the pro rekker (frontline guy mind you) dies and then gets swapped over the enemy team. Now he's mad. He just wiped out their fucking base and he has to be on the loser side? But hey no problem, this guy's a fuckin pro rekker. So he goes forward and wipes out the other team's base, the one he was just on. During that time, his own new base is being rebuilt. After he wipes out his old team's base, 4 guys leave, he dies, and he gets teamswapped again. Shit, now he just repeats the pattern!

    I see a lot of matches stalemate for way longer than necessary because of this. Yesterday, I was teamswapped five goddamn times in a single match, because as a battle builder I was always on the frontlines, and I was the first to die. Every time though, I took it with a grain of salt and helped my new team win again. One time, I constructed a deadly trap on blue's side (Underwater trap, it was pure genius) and then a red knight came down and killed me, I got teamswapped. Then I went to the blue base, and tore down the trap I had just fucking built, only for a blue knight to dive underwater and kill me. Then I got FUCKING TEAMSWAPPED AGAIN. So I rebuild the trap, march forward with my blue team, block a bunch of red doors, couple of red guys ragequit because their builders suck, a well thrown bomb kills me, and I fucking die again. Now I'm on the side of the base whose doors I just blocked and... you get the picture.

    What if there was no teamswapping? I make a genius trap, I get killed, my trap still exists, I push forward with my team, the enemy ragequits, we win, MATCH OVER.



    Yes, it sucks to be on the losing team and have your allies leave and you have a 1:2 teammate ratio, but the match will be over quickly and the next match teams jumble around anyway. This constant delaying of the inevitable makes the game "fairer" by punishing the winning team for being better than the loser team. That's not fun, it's stupid.

    So I say, just remove autobalancing. You can still prevent people from teamswapping if it unbalances the teams though, I think that's fair game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
    Blue_Tiger and Shadowor like this.
  9. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    The only issue with your suggestion Klokinator is the mass exodus that will result when an entire team starts getting obliterated and no one swaps over, then everyone leaves, not enough people in server, general rage, and then the server is empty. This really sucks because there are only like 4-5 CTF servers full at a time and only 1-2 are good ping for most players.
     
  10. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    The match will be over within a minute or two anyway. The winning team players likely won't be ragequitting because, you know, they're winning. Once the next match starts and building phase is a thing people will rejoin the new match because that's what auto-join does. Problems solved.
     
  11. Shadowor

    Shadowor Shark Slayer

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    184
    Auto balance should definitely stay. Imagine people could swap anytime, 16 v 4 would exist. They just swap to the winning team all the time, I'm already tired of these imbalancing idiots.
    Or let's say there is no auto balance system but players can't swap either. That is also a bad idea, friends would like to play together, some might want to help the other team etc., there are many reasons.
    Don't make respawn time longer, it is just boring and make people leave, I don't think it solves anything anyway.
    Collecting the ideas above me, a good system would be:
    -Players can't be balanced after playing 10-15 minute in that round (you don't have to play against your team if you did something big for them).
    -Recently swapped players get balance immunity for a while (to prevent continuous swapping).
    -A queue system, the most freshly joined player gets swapped, not the first death (to be fair, duh).
    -Remove the chat spam (it's really unnecessary).
    -Whatever stuff you think.
     
  12. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    Autobalancing =/= teamswapping that unbalances the teams. Good reading comprehension.
     
  13. Shadowor

    Shadowor Shark Slayer

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    184
    If you remove auto balance, what will prevent players from swapping? Right now if you switch to the bigger team the system puts you right back.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  14. BillyWeedman

    BillyWeedman Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    52
    I have no issues with getting balanced once, but when you get swapped three times in a row it gets annoying

    its a good thing is score related tho, one more reason to get good
     
  15. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    ...it isn't. The first person to die gets swapped.
     
  16. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    It is based on score; it checks if you were very recently swapped, if you're on the smallest team, if the difference is >2 and if you're above the average score in your team before allowing you to be swapped. You can check this in DefaultBalanceTeams.as if you're interested.
     
    zerd and Potatobird like this.
  17. BillyWeedman

    BillyWeedman Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    52
    So klok now you know I was right
    Gonna rekt you ingame because of your lack of comomn sense :r_flex::B)::flex:
     
  18. Shadowor

    Shadowor Shark Slayer

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    184
    Well that's weird, I was sure there is no system for that, good to have one then.
    (Something from DefaultBalanceTeams.as)
    'does a conservative job to avoid pissing off players'
    'simply holds the last time we balanced someone, so we don't make some poor guy angry if he's always balanced'
    Hearing all these people have problem with it (up to today I see them quit because of that), it can still use some improvement.
     
  19. Bint

    Bint Haxor

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    536
    *cough* I fucking knew it! *cough*
     
  20. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    That seems like a rather extreme example, and I know it works as a balance measure because the old Action Classic server added respawn time based on proximity to the tent