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Account Ranking System

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Geti, Jul 21, 2011.

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Mods: Hella, Lieber, ParaLogia
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  1. J4son

    J4son Guest

    This is exactly what I would like to avoid. I mean, maybe karma on the forums, but PLEASE not ingame.
    Too much pointless meta! It'd either be disregarded or abused.

    I'm glad you're taking input from the community though.
     
    J4son, Jul 22, 2011
    #41
  2. poe

    poe Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    29
    I was under the impression you could vote everyone once a day before it started costing karma...
     
    poe, Jul 22, 2011
    #42
  3. Quimbo

    Quimbo Guest

    That would make sense, sorry for confusing this.
     
    Quimbo, Jul 22, 2011
    #43
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    I think voting at all should cost rep, for the simple reason that that makes abusing the system costly to anyone trying to. If you've got high rank and are part of a server, everyone downvoting the griefer costs them comparatively little (0.5 rank each) and costs the griefer a lot, as many downvotes as there are user.

    Power in numbers.

    You'd only be allowed one vote per user per day (-> you could vote on every user, assuming you have enough reputation if you so desired) rather than paying more for more downvotes. This forces it to be cumulative over time as opposed to you simply impressing some powerful person and getting 30 upvotes from them.

    We'll see whether it gets abuse via testing it. That's part of the beauty of throwing out a prototype and letting people use it - you find out what bits are broken really quickly.

    I've got to run, good to see people picking holes in the system.
     
    Geti, Jul 22, 2011
    #44
  5. poe

    poe Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    29
    Should I get cracking on the scripts then or is this still in the discussion process?
     
    poe, Jul 22, 2011
    #45
  6. Nixitur

    Nixitur Guest

    Gotta be honest, I don't like the idea. I dislike any systems that measure a user's "worth" (even displaying post counts in forum threads) because
    a) It's exploitable like heck.
    b) It separates the community.

    In this case, it can be exploited by, for example, making an alternate account and vote each other up constantly. You would continuously gain rep. I.e. user A has sock puppet Account B. Keeping track of the rep:
    A:1.0 B:1.0 (A votes for B)
    A:0.5 B:2.0 (B votes for A)
    A:1.5 B:1.5 (A votes for B)
    A:1.0 B:2.5 (B votes for A)
    A:2.0 B: 2.0

    Since KAG is free (for now), making accounts B, C, D and E is not too difficult and if you switch servers all the time, it's almost impossible to detect. Unless you want to introduce player logs that are independent of server logs, but that would probably not be easy. Hell, if you only have server logs, a griefer could make his own server where he continuously 1-Ups himself, giving him ridiculous rep.
    A much simpler and probably more common abuse would be downvoting people you don't like.

    Now to point b). People will look down on users with 0 rep. New user? You better work for your rep or people might think you're a griefer. Someone broke the castle? It was totally that 0-rep guy, let's ban him from the server. Did anyone see him do it? No? Well, everyone else is a "trusted user", so obviously, they couldn't have done it.
    Or should we make servers with a minimum rep requirement? Kick everyone who doesn't have at least 10 rep?
    If you include such a system, this will be a community that becomes more and more anti-newbie. Which would be a shame.
     
    Nixitur, Jul 22, 2011
    #46
  7. D'Nightingale

    D'Nightingale Guest

    Maybe there could be a gauge of reputation/time played?

    So someone who just started would be at zero, but if he gets a few rep points early on his gauge would jump, but someone who has played many hours and has barely any rep would get a negative number.
     
    D'Nightingale, Jul 22, 2011
    #47
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
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    Per-player logs were mentioned in the first bit.
    The "players" are held on our servers -> we can easily keep track of them and any activity.
    I'd be interested in releasing the masterserver tech at some later point so people can make their own community and try out their own rank systems etc, as a side note.

    Now, to address your major concern
    You could only 1UP a person once per day! Sitting in a server upvoting yourself only works if you've got several days to spend doing it!
    You can also only vote if you've got a rank higher than some threshold -> multiaccounting doesn't work as you need to accumulate reputation on all of your multiple accounts.
    -> Any sort of 'self bumping' scheme will take a lot of effort and time, and would be easily detected with a nodal view like so:

    [​IMG]

    Dedicated griefers would then be forced to interact with other players to avoid detection -> griefers have to spend time playing the game nicely. We then net some "good" playtime from anyone with malicious intent, and assuming we've got a proper report system working we can reverse all their hard work in an instant if they're caught acting maliciously.

    The nodal view system would be incredibly handy with some tweaking and different linking criteria, in retrospect, and would probably be able to be viewed by anyone at any time, so if you feel like back-seat moderating, or just want to have a look at how players are interacting, you can ;)

    The different criteria could be things like:
    -played with in the last <time period>
    -sent a private message
    -reported
    -killed/killed by
    -added as friend
    -muted
    -voted to kick
    etc, I think that'd give interesting insight into how people were playing the game. We'd need to start logging a lot more but that could be done.
     
    Geti, Jul 22, 2011
    #48
  9. Swaggernuts

    Swaggernuts Guest

    Im in support of this idea, mostly because it gives incentive to actually join the community. (Lol at Clan "circlejerk")

    Also you should have a formal way to register a clan. (maybe even later, a way to customize clan skins and such (color changing parts on the sprites) It would also help notice the clan circlejerks better. (maybe give a slight deduction if you 1up a clanmate?)
     
    Swaggernuts, Jul 22, 2011
    #49
  10. meissner61

    meissner61 Guest

    Hey Geti, good ideas i can see why some people are scared of the social aspect though. Maybe also for the social part require so that more than one person votes for you (Either up or down) Down should probably be more people required because if osmeone is being an ass (Assuming its easily done through the game in the tab window or something?) most people will start voting down. my 2 cents
     
    meissner61, Jul 22, 2011
    #50
  11. saniblues

    saniblues KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    418
    If we get this I want my rank to be -1
     
    saniblues, Jul 22, 2011
    #51
  12. meissner61

    meissner61 Guest

    Another thing, is why do we need to vote at all? WHy dont we just have different stats on the website? Like time played / enemies killed / gold captured e.t.c This way theres no "System" to abuse, and players can judge for themselves who is good or not (Since this will only be seriously used by the elites anyway)
     
    meissner61, Jul 22, 2011
    #52
  13. Shadlington

    Shadlington THD Team THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    1,562
    @Geti: Nodal view is a great idea. If we have this and it is publicly viewable then I would be a hell of a lot more on board with this whole thing.

    I was reading something about a similar concept recently - about how using nodal views of email activity within large corporations is a good way of seeing when individuals in the company are involved in something legally dubious due to the unusual distributions of exchanges. You could tell something dodgy was going on just by looking at the nodal map.
     
    Shadlington, Jul 22, 2011
    #53
  14. Nixitur

    Nixitur Guest

    I don't think the nodal map should be publicly viewable. I'm not even sure users should see who downvoted them. That just leads to arguments and people downvoting each other and the other person's friends because the other person downvoted them. You might think that after one day, it will have cooled down, but unfortunately, most people on the internet are dicks.

    Also, Geti, my main concern was actually part b) and don't even bother with answers like "We're a mature community." If we were a mature community, we wouldn't even need a rank system. Every community thinks they're mature. They are wrong.
     
    Nixitur, Jul 22, 2011
    #54
  15. Withror

    Withror Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    140
    Anyone remember this lol?
     
    Withror, Sep 21, 2015
    #55
    Andr01d likes this.
  16. Bint

    Bint Haxor

    Messages:
    536
    :note::yes:CONGRATLATIONS!!!!!!! :migrant: yyou have won the awrad for necro of the the year! :lantern: :skull::gold:
     
    Bint, Sep 21, 2015
    #56
    jimmyzoudcba, PUNK123, Withror and 2 others like this.
  17. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Worth asking "where did this go?"? Maybe. Worth bumping a centuries old thread? Probably not.

    Go do some housework, Withror; you've clearly got too much time on your hands. :left::huh?:

    Locking this. Geti can reply/unlock if he likes.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron, Sep 22, 2015
    #57
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