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Apex vs. SURGE

Discussion in 'Competitive KAG Archive' started by Tern, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. rymcd

    rymcd Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    287
    Lefty and Sangfroid mfw, I mean sang's a whore so I can understand that a little. X^):heart:

    Maybe Apex should chill out a bit if they wanna keep the dense competitive scene going. I'm only saying this because I assume the main interest is clan wars for Apex.
    I can't imagine other clans wanting to face you much longer when it's so imbalanced and unpredictable every time. You guys seem to be in routine of using AMAZING and unexpected subs last minute.

    Your line up listed on the forums at least has weak points that can be focused on. It's pretty hard to find weak points when your the top clan and your swapping people out for better unlisted players the day of the match(The list at least lets the other clan prepare a little).

    I'm not even sure there's a clan that can come close to beating your real line up (let's face it, knight power is the main game winner in KAG). That being said I think you guys might be making a mistake if you're actually here to "Encourage the growth of competitive KAG".

    Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not really up to date with this stuff any more but this is the impression I'm getting.
     
  2. Darknighte9

    Darknighte9 Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. KAG Competitive League

    Messages:
    89
    Tell 'em Jig :builder:
     
  3. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I'm just gonna say it straight up. Sang doesn't want to join us officially because he doesn't want it to cause issues with people. Everyone knows him as a lone wolf and he's told people that he won't join clans. If he joined Apex after saying that do you really blame him for just wanting to stay a sub? I don't know if he'll ever officially join, but you should expect him to sub if he's online when you face us.
     
  4. kittycity

    kittycity Bison Rider

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    256
    So hes basically in your clan but not officially.. like if someone asks if hes in apex youd say no.. but in reality he is?
     
  5. Darknighte9

    Darknighte9 Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. KAG Competitive League

    Messages:
    89
    I think Jigs point (I may be wrong on this) but the inconvenient truth is that the constant subbing of expert KAG players does a disservice to competitive. Clans will find no reason to face you guys if they know they'll just get slaughtered by what is (let's face it) a nearly unbeatable lineup. If you guys continue to treat sang as a sub, I don't blame a single clan for denying your right to have him sub in a cw, whether that's AG, Zen, or whatever clan you face next.
     
  6. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I don't blame them either. But one thing you should consider is that Apex is made up of a bunch of talented players and Sang doesn't define the clan as a whole. We've played against Sang, mak, and others and we've still come out on top. I can't and won't speak for sang any further.

    We encourage clans to scrim us. Whether or not they win or lose, they still learn something. We might have some of the top players out there, but every clan has its weaknesses. We all left clans and made Apex there's nothing stopping people from doing the same. Get a group of other top players (sang included) and I bet it'll be closer than you think. We utilize teamwork, good decision making, trust, and communication. We're all human, unless you have a shitty computer there's nothing stopping you from doing the same
     
  7. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    439
    Currently I can tell you without shame that the AG is unable to beat the Apex.
    You maybe do not know, but we lost against the FIST during two training certainly far from with our best line-up, but we lost against the FIST.

    Do not overestimate us we can be a clan that made the proofs and which is considered as one of the best in kag. But like any the clans there are good and bad period.
    Currently it is bad for us, I even thought to destroy the AG.
    For over 3 months we have not done a real clan wars, so yes I can say we are rusting and our tactics too. (that's why I'm working on new tactics ;P)
    But we need to train and not a little!

    Meanwhile I throw you a challenge.
    The last time you beat the FIST which was a small line up, and they do not use voice conversation.

    So here's my challenge ask a rematch to @Colargolator, specify it to use this line-up: Colar (builder), Popno (Knight) Scriptykiddy (Knight), Persephone / Sniips / Clouds / Grey (choice, Knight) and Math (Archer)

    And I want it all be recording! : P

    Good luck to the both clans if you accept the challenge! :)


    Et toi Colar, dit à tes joueurs de s’entraîner sur des serveurs US ! Je veux pas un match de tantouze :P
    Montre qu'es que la vrai FIST ! :)
     
  8. Tern

    Tern Quickfish Donator Official Server Admin
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    175
    I don't think winning really stifles competitive KAG. We organize matches, and that can only lead to growth. There is no shame in a loss, and we're perfectly happy playing scrimmages against other clans instead of official matches. Both teams benefit.

    I've talked to sang and Lefty since almost day one about subbing for Apex. If everyone thinks it would help other clans prepare better, then I could list them as stand-ins with their permission, but I really doubt it makes much of a difference. Also, "better" players? I'm fairly certain we're subbing the best with the best, not mediocrity with the best.

    AG# is definitely a solid contender, even if they might not be able to scrape a win. Again, competitive is about playing matches and learning from mistakes. Teams being scared off is an entirely different issue.

    I have talked to Colar about playing another match and this is a challenge we would be glad to accept. :)
     
  9. RampageX

    RampageX Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

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    195
    We know this. You guys want the competitive scene to grow, but it won't if you have a bunch of pro KAG players playing with the less experienced especially when they have pro subs. A clan that gets absolutely bulldozered and they know they will lose when their facing a clan like apex, won't want to play them again. Instead of stacking one clan everyone should split up, if you actually care about the KAG comp. scene. Hence why am in surge for the time, to help them grow. After finding out that sang was subbing I didn't want to play the game because of the knight power. Once found out lefty was subbing as well it was a fact we wouldn't have won. No offense to you swine, but he only plays builder. I just want to get the match over with at that point.
     
  10. Darknighte9

    Darknighte9 Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. KAG Competitive League

    Messages:
    89
    Why then, with clans like BoW, POWER, and Zen being inactive in competitive at the moment, does it seem so hard to believe that something like what you are suggesting could be achieved? A lot has changed since MLK with players leaving the game, leaving clans, etc. I'm still glad that our clans still had a match, but I can't help but agree with a lot of what other people have been pointing out. For example, Rampage is right in saying a clan that gets totally rekt, bulldozed, whatever, likely won't be anxious to have a rematch.

    This. Regardless of subs, Apex is extremely good, so naturally a small startup clan like my own can only do so much to prepare. When you swap one amazing player for another, it's extremely difficult to talk strategy, because the best of the best, all have different playstyles and strategies. But I digress, I don't think Apex needs to worry about being beat at all, given the amount of people who have stepped away from the game temporarily or all together since MLK.
     
  11. topkek, dirtyswine surely equal to sangfroid

    having said that, people being unsatisfied that someone wins games sounds about just ridiculous. If you really want not to play games because there's a guy that you consider unbeatable then idk, get good enough to actually beat him?
    Talking about sangfroid subbing "killing competitive scene" is actually pretty ironic as many competitive games (or sports) throughout the years have had multiple periods of domination by a single player or a team. Here it's just 1 guy out of five.
    Facing someone you can't beat should be a motivation to get better. Competitive play is about weeding the best out of the best. About finding every single tiniest way to get a lead. About winning at all cost. It's not a sandbox or mediocre players to get wins and feel better about themselves.
    If someone really has a problem with sangfroid playing without being a clan member, just refuse to play vs people subbing players without further notice. Simple as that.
     
  12. Tern

    Tern Quickfish Donator Official Server Admin
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    175
    Within Apex they typically play different classes, so that comparison isn't applicable at all. The rest of your post I agree with for the most part, but if you think sang is the only decent player we've played then you know nothing about NA KAG.
     
  13. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    fixed that for ya

    anyway there arent that many active good players that arent in clans(or there are but they do not want to be in clans) and when a team monopolizes all the good players it is kinda de-moralizing to stick crap out through anything(I'd assume). The fact Apex already has the best of the best subs is also kinda disheartening too(let me make it clear i'm not against what you are doing just stating how i see others feeling), anyway good luck in your future matches apex
     
  14. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    Dark, I remember talking to you about how I was against monopolizing clans when we were in Nova. The thing is, is that I was tired of having good players in Nova that had zero coordination whatsoever.

    Think about what our clan is good at: Offense. Now think about ways you can counter that: Good defense. Now you'd have to tell you clan to change their playstyle to try and counter ours. You'll have to be innovative to win with a good defense. Our knights are not invincible, but they are damn strong. Apex is basically what Zen used to be, but a little more coordinated imo.
     
  15. Darknighte9

    Darknighte9 Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. KAG Competitive League

    Messages:
    89
    The only reason Zen worked was because there was much more activity in competitive. And things aren't as simple as playing one way or another. But like Jig, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
     
  16. SpideY

    SpideY Hear Me Roar Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    511
    And thats just a clan war. As a clan, the real strenght is to stay together even if you lost many clan wars (and im not talking about 10-15 cws but about 100, 1000).

    You will lose against a lone player, against a perfect strategy. You have to work with your mates to be the best.
     
  17. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    This is essentially what makes Apex so strong. It honestly comes down to how seriously you want to take this game.

    You have to think of every move you make when you're in a clan war. Good decisions stacked on each other from each player makes for a really solid clan. Capitalizing on enemy mistakes will propel your clan further into victory.
     
  18. RampageX

    RampageX Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    195
    If someone didn't steal our members, Zen would still be active. :^)
     
  19. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    We took Griever lol. Tern got kicked. I also left Nova and look what happened to them... They split up and made their own groups. Zen wasn't the only one that suffered
     
  20. RampageX

    RampageX Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    195
    And Sunstorm. If tern wasn't acting like a dipshit he wouldn't have gotten kicked.