Archer Balance [371]

I don't like how archers have a mechanic which can beat knights close courters, it just doesn't make much sense, knights should be able to obliterate anything less then 2 blocks in front of them, not cower from it.

Sorry, i will edit it to say most not all.

 

I think archers should maintain some kind of close-range attack. A talented builder can get a few hits in, but that doesn't feel off to me. I'm pretty happy with the balance of knight/builder combat since the updates. Also, since a skilled knight can wreck archers from a distance with a bomb toss, a skilled archer probably shouldn't be completely worthless at melee range.

 

Yeah I think that's a fair point, I know bombs are limited in amount, but they're more then a good enough counter for archers getting too close in, I'd prefer that the two were on some sort of par in a duel, the knight always has an advantage anyway as long as they're disciplined enough anyway.

I think that the stun time from arrows and time to charge a fully charged shot being tweaked would go a long way to helping dial down the over effectiveness of archers defending towers in numbers, I still reckon that stun time and damage should be alot more dynamic based on distance still though, that'd help too since the biggest problem is when archers in a tower have a decent shot at long range on open maps, and knights can get pinned and killed a whole screen length away easily.

Wasn't been arsey with you by the way just so you know, just thought it was worth pointing out ;)

 

True, but if you ask me knights should be able to shrug off shots up to a much closer range then they do now if you ask me. Long range archer fire should only be affecting builders & archers, catas, shops and knights that are in combat already, so if you get rid of long range stuns, made them a little shorter so you need better coordination and accuracy to pull it off rather then 5 archers firing mindlessly getting random kills, and make the whole system a bit more dynamic, then the spam would only really come into effect at shorter distances.

In my personal experience on most public servers, defending teams don't have the coordination to defend properly anyway, but get saved by the fact they can fend off opponents from a long distance from their towers with a shit load of archers. When an attacking team gets in close to the point where they can think about laddering and tunnelling the base of the tower it all goes to shit, and most pubs will fuck up and not choose the right targets, I think if you could get that little bit closer to an enemy tower without archers having a counter to shielded knights then it's make attacking a shit load easier. Also if you slowed down the charge of the most powerful shot it'd also make countering catas and other non-player targets more difficult, which would give another slight attacking advantage.

It is a tricky one though overall, classic CTF is probably gonna be the hardest gamemode to balance, with all the other seige weaponry that's gonna be available at some point that'll obviously offer alot of solutions to problems like this, but what with that not being in the f2p mode it's just gonna be a bit of a ballache.

 

I personally think archers are balanced. Playing as a knight, the only time I get frustrating with archers is when I'm dueling a knight get killed by an enemy archer and then see that my team archers are loitering around the tower trying to get kills against the knight. Knights should be devastated by archers at long range, and I expect that when I'm playing knight.

Regarding arrow spam, I would propose that knights should be able to shield upward and move while on ladders. This would give Knights protection from weak arrows falling, yet still gives the archers a chance to fend them off with a fully charged arrow.

 

Encourage archers to take risks and get closer by dramatically lowering damage of long-range arrows and dramatically raising the damage of those that hit targets at shorter distances. Only allow arrows to break shield at close range as well.

With these alterations, a smart archer will take the risk necessary to be effective, and a truly skilled archer will be capable of avoiding the danger while still remaining effective.

To counteract the danger that archers will be putting themselves in due to this, do as Kouji recommends.

 

Edit - Read your statement the wrong way.

I'm actually not sure how to fix that... but then again, at close range, knights have a chance to get at archers, ya know?

 

Why not just put them into practice and see how it goes? Those rules are server-side variables right? (haven't checked in detail) :3

 

CoughDrop actually made it so that minimally charged arrows don't do damage. And it's ASTOUNDING how much more fun it was. Mind you, this is coming from someone who plays archer most of the time.

 

I also almost exclusively play archer, cept for building phase or when the opposite team is too dull to play against as an archer. I certainly have considered about reducing damage and distance to stun on arrows and dont mind it tbh, just that I haven't touched KAG for a while due to masters, as well as the state of the game in the last couple of patches. Hence the inactivity from AOE in oceania servers.

 

Archers are fine the way they are, except for the fact that trees don't break fall damage.

 

This does, indeed, suck. I don't agree with superhero archers that can jump from hundreds of tiles high into a tree safe and sound, but like 10 tiles? :(

 

Archers need to run a tad faster. They're not wearing the sword, shield, or the heavy armor, so why don't they run and jump a LOT faster?

 

Archer's being fast would be awesome for gameplay, too >.>

That would not be terrible. Archers being able to escape from enemies quickly and get in trees quickly and the such would make them a much funner class.

Besides, how can anybody say they're op when knights have shields anyways...?

 

I am probably 40-60% archer/builder in most games, that can change depending on what is needed. I will also start out by saying I think archers are overpowered as they are now and something needs changed.

That something though . . . Is so hard to see. Aside from all of the de-syncs, shields not working, weird stomping all that, we get to the core of combat, or rather the ideal combat. In ideal combat, a knights' shield would deflect all arrows he sees coming at him, so any skilled knight should be able to deflect roughly 90% of all grey/red arrows. This means the way archers are now is not entirely overpowered, but knights don't have the ability to defend against archers' arrows as good as they used to, the knight shield just needs a buff or fixing. So then the only way to hit the knight without fail would be 2 fully charged arrows in succession. A more aggressive knight, or one that has to jump a lot due to terrain is more open, but should be able to time his shield accordingly, but a skilled archer knowing this should also be able to pinpoint vulnerabilities.

Someone pointed out that knights should be able to hold their shield while moving upwards on a ladder but I don't think that should be the case, if you have a ladder and an archer is camping on top of it this is a systematic advantage of height which should not change, if he doesn't want to come down just bomb him, this forces him to either risk jumping or hope that he will stun the knight.

I don't think archers should just be "untouchable" in the trees, so I suggest that: When a tree is chopped or bombed, the tree should shake for a good 2-3 seconds, and while its shaking archers cannot climb them, and archers currently on the tree fall off. (So it would basically "remove" the ladder for a short period of time, not a premature stun like it is now, just gone).

We all want the same thing here, a balanced fun to play but not overpowered archer. Please keep this in mind while reading, and making posts for this thread.

Thank you for reading.

 

Exactly! The shield is a great weapon against arrows, when you figure out that arrow spamming can be blocked so easily. BUT! Then they complain of the 'noob' archer who charges his shot, breaks his shield and gets killed by the 'spamming archers'.

But decreasing damage at long range and increasing mobility sounds like a fair trade.
They should also be somewhat faster, because of no armor
And its not like they are SO OP, they only have 2 hearts, if they get stunned when they fall of tress, they are most likely dead

There is also the problem of builders building buildings between trees, so when an team archer wants to climb up, he is way too slow, then the dumb builders come and chop the tree you are climbing on, you fall, and you cant get up until he has stopped or the tree is gone.

Me also thinks archers need a weak melee move(kicking/Hitting with bow). It doesn't even have to deal
damage! It could just stun them for you to get away. Not very useful in combat, but very useful for running away

TLDR: Decrease damage at long range, increase mobility and speed and add no damage dealing stunning kick