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Archer Balance [371]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by allknowingfrog, May 3, 2012.

?

The archer...

  1. is already well-balanced.

    31.9%
  2. is over-powered.

    23.3%
  3. needs adjustment, but is not over-powered.

    44.8%
  1. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Yes, it is, but I'd rather have it like this, than requiring full charge to shoot at all, that's just plain retarded.
    I'm all for trying your suggestion.
     
    potatomcwhiskey likes this.
  2. I would never complain about archers EVER if that God damned arrowspam was removed; and to those saying 'blah blah use your shield', when you un-shield to attack an archer, the spammed arrows hit you faster than your sword hits them, so as you chase them (they run backwards at the SAME speed as you moving forwards as a knight) you gain no ground on them. Meanwhile, as you attempt to advance farther towards said archer, every time you unshield you take a heart of damage. Since you can't TOUCH the archer, you eventually just die whereas they just move on to raping the next knight.

    WHY?
     
    Beelzebub, LostPix and Rayne like this.
  3. Ne3zy

    Ne3zy Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    308
    balancing archers is really urgent to improve gameplay, hope geti will make a update soon, I don't think coding this is really difficult :P
     
  4. Madoka

    Madoka Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    38
    >ITT: How 2 bombs
     
  5. Bombs are more expensive than arrows, and therefore the archers have a plentiful advantage against anyone with a bomb.
    At least, I THINK that's what your post meant..? "Start using bombs on the archers."
     
  6. killatron46

    killatron46 Cata Whore Donator
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]

    Messages:
    808
    A smart archer can still feint a knight into throwing the bomb in a bad place though, I'm able to dodge bombs as an archer 40~60% of the time depending on the skill of the knight I'm attacking. Knights sometimes have literally nothing they can do. For instance, what would a knight do in something like this:

    :blank::D:bow:
    :dirt::dirt::ladder::ladder::dirt::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt::ladder::ladder::dirt::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt::ladder::ladder::dirt::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt::ladder::ladder::dirt::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::ladder::dirt_bg::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::ladder::dirt_bg::dirt:
    :dirt::sword::QQ::dirt_bg::dirt_bg::dirt:
    :dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt::dirt:

    The knight can't get momentum to even THROW their bomb, and most likely if they try to climb out the archer will be able to change a shot and push them back down before they can get out.

    What I'm trying to say here, is this something that should be removed or not? I mean if a knight falls down in there, he should be punished right? A smart archer should be rewarded for outmaneuvering their opponent?

    Archer combat is the thing that really keeps me on KAG, because it is basically the last bit of combat that you can play where ping actually doesn't matter too much. In knight combat, if the person you're fighting has a huge ping difference it can be really weird, but this isn't so for archers.

    We need to be really careful when distinguishing between skill difference and overpowered-ness in knight vs archer combat.
     
    SARGRA13, allknowingfrog and Madoka like this.
  7. Hoj

    Hoj Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    149
    Ranged combat is superior and that's a fact today. Arrows are dangerous objects especially when they are flying through the air at high speeds. You guys just don't get it do you? All that energy focused on one point is all is takes to go through armor. The shield on the KAG main menu is made of wood ; wood is soft and becomes weak over time and that's all it takes. You mention how archers can shut down the battle field? Ya, knights are able to do the same dam thing. Knights have a melee attack that can be used for as long as the knight is alive and they also have a ranged attack with bombs. Not only all of those items but a shield that can block arrows. I honestly do not see the point of this argument about archers it's all bullshit. You all want the knight to become a tank and never get damaged. You want to rush into another base without any plan and just "own noobs all day" come on, this is so pathetic when you think about it. Ya i understand this is a game and all but lets not nerf every fun aspect of this game.
     
  8. allknowingfrog

    allknowingfrog Bison Rider

    Messages:
    549
    Hoj, I mean this in the most constructive way possible: bugger off, and don't come back until you have something useful to say. We're trying to have a constructive conversation, and you keep popping in periodically to tell us that the game should favor the archer. We want balance. We want all of the classes to be fun to play. No one is arguing that knights should be invincible tanks. If you want to have an archer circlejerk, start a new thread.
    /end rant
    Very true. If you've ever come up against a truly skilled archer, you know the difference. That's why I have a problem with simply calling the archer OP. Most of the time, it isn't. Camping, spam and mass archer fire are the three things that I take issue with, and these are only a problem because of limited ticket servers. Anyway, spam seems to have been nerfed a bit in the latest build. Progress! :thumbs_up:
     
  9. Bunnyboy

    Bunnyboy Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    599
    I don't think archers are OP, and it's because of bombs. The only time I hate archers is on RTDM.
     
  10. TheFilip

    TheFilip Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    204
    The Archer could get a new ability, where he melee-attacks by taking an arrow and using it as a sword. It does zero damage to players. but attaches the arrow to a wall.
     
  11. Ne3zy

    Ne3zy Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    308
    this is cool, but better is that he takes 2 arrows one in each hand and he can climb with it, like zombies does
     
    TheFilip likes this.
  12. GloriousToast

    GloriousToast Haxor Donator

    Messages:
    1,463
    i would rather have it as a knock back sort of attack with zero damage. You know how a torpedo has to arm it self while in the air for it to explode before blowing it self up, make arrows like that, that they have to go a certain distance / get a certain velocity.

    On the other hand knights could have some sort of rage mechanic, where when they get hit they gain rage. More rage will equal more speed like 5-10% faster. Archers could get the same but it would be fright and they wouldn't be able to attack, but would be 1.5x to 2x as fast so 7.5-20% speed boost
     
  13. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Why over-complicate what already works well?
     
    Madoka and Contrary like this.
  14. GloriousToast

    GloriousToast Haxor Donator

    Messages:
    1,463
    because what works so well makes noobs cry. hell archer combat is so more refined then knight combat which can get really buggy
     
  15. Ne3zy

    Ne3zy Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    308
    I play correctly archer and knight, and as archer player I know it's unbalanced, arrows spam have to be removed, that's all. I'm not a noob and I'm not crying, I have just eyes to see that they're fcking unbalanced !
     
  16. TheFilip

    TheFilip Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    204
    If complication means fixing, then hell yeah.
     
  17. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    That isn't fixing shit, that's ruining archer.
     
  18. Fate

    Fate Studying seashells

    Messages:
    593
    I just discussed the archers on IRC with Wandermark and SirSalami.

    SirSalami brought out a good question regarding archers overall:
    And considering that, I find that people play both. But more dominantly people play sharpshooters against enemy archers and builders, but release a hail of arrows against knights.

    In any case, I'm putting my new thoughts here:
    1) Leave the damage as it is, as well as charge times (OR nerf them slightly), but make the quiver hold a lot less arrows than they do currently (250 I believe?), maybe 15-30. That would surely discourage spammage and promote attempting to make much more accurate and powerful shots, like legolas/robin hood style. (I prefer this one)
    2) Nerf the damage a lot, leave charge time unchanged, make the quiver infinite, lower gathering time or remove the need to gather altogether. This would make it more medieval style, with a lot of spammage that does not do that much damage.
     
  19. AnRK

    AnRK Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    641
    That's an interesting point, archers are generally regarded as ranged and shouldn't be CQB heros, but knights jump & glide about in their fuck load of armour and chuck bombs around. The only problem is in gameplay terms one class can fight at multiple ranges, and for the most part the other can't.

    Dude, no need for those kinds of comments really is there...
     
  20. DawnOfNights

    DawnOfNights Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    83
    I still think that archers are great as they are, if you hate them so much, make a server that doesn't allow them.
    I play builder, archer and knight, and i don't think they are so overpowered as you say they are.
    arrow spamming or 'making it rain' is rapid firing of arrows, and they aren't very useful unless the enemy is under them or really close.

    though i will agree on ONE thing, when an archer runs away and arrow spams the following knight, is somewhat of an issue it seems.
    So i will try and make a compensate, make a 'load arrow' animation that takes a little time, so that these people can stop whining, as well as making the archer look cooler.