Archer changes general

While pretty much everyone is in agreement that archer is in need of a damage buff to 1.5, I (and probably others) have suggested this to Geti numerous times and each time he is expressed reluctance at fiddling with damage as he feels archer is "in a good place" now. So while we should not give up home completely take note that this change is unlikely to occur and we should be busy thinking up other things.

In particularly we should be thinking of new ways for the archer to affect a game, rather than simply tweaking existing abilities. You could make mining 10x slower or blocks 10x more expensive but still the builder would have a vital role to play just because his niche is so important. Archer needs something that even in a small way approaches this level of importance.

 

I think the niche that Archers hold right now.... is the bomb and fire arrows. Even though expensive as hell... They are great in taking down structures. Past that, just pure archer spam. as of now.



Not sure if suggested. Did not read all 10 pages. But what about leave some of the trap setting to archers? Especially stuff like mines...


I feel as if Archers are OP is played correctly, but only about 2% play archers well, so most people feel that archers are shitty. And they just get killed by knights.

 

Don't forget that there have been a lot of new players since the steam release so while archers ~might~ seem OP don't forget that most players are newbies. Hells, since the steam release my K/D ratio has gone through the roof both as an archer AND as a knight but that doesn't mean the archer class is OP when dealing with newbies.

Back on topic regarding archer suggestion.

Give them traps? Similar to mines? I'm a bit reluctant in making archers good by having them rely on special ammo since those cost coin but eh, what the hell? We already hit rock bottom with these suggestions in terms of usefulness.

 

Imagine if sticky arrows were a thing. You could grab a knights cheap bomb, stick it to your arrow, and bam cheaper bomb arrow.

Oh the possibilities. Keg arrow, anyone?

 

Boulder Arrows sound ridiculous and amazing.

 

Two words: crate arrows. Stuff a knight in a crate then shoot him over that enemy's tower.

(I'm still surprised people don't try to smuggle knights in crates and have archers carry them over walls using the grappling hook)

 

Well this requires team work on a level that is largely unexplored in KAG. When I used to play with Carver a lot I would sit in a catapult and have him arrow/tree climb me up on top of stuff. A few times in beta I've bomb jumped while carrying other players. It didn't do much as most of the times were with my RL friend who isn't very good but there is potential.

 

Whoa...that just made me realize that unless you can make them in TTH at workbenches you can't make crates now days? can you? *adds them to the list of the forgottens*

I do love the idea of sticky arrows...even as just a mod idea. Just sounds like it'd both be useful and add to the hilarity the game can have.

 

Yep, and why shouldn't they? Even if they move slower, if you're unable to hurt them in any way shape or form they've already won. It's just a matter of time at that point.

@Crab, you can make them at benches

 

Crazy idea but what's everyone's opinion about giving archers some limited building capabilities? The KAG archers always striked me more as the hunters of the wild so wondered why not go for a bit of camouflage? Give them the ability to dig holes and build a 3x2 fox hole where they can hide. The fox hole would have a camouflaged wooden door which only archers can see from nearby. This would allow ways of escaping or attempting to infiltrate bases and set them ablaze or create breaches while everyone else is focused on the battle up front. The trap doors leading tot he foxhole could be destroyed by enemies even if they didn't see them but they require an archer nearby to be able to locate them. Plus it sounds cool so eh.

Don't take me too serious on this idea though, i'm half asleep here and my brain is a bit mushy so yeah.

 

Hey I was just talking about this with a friend of mine and we came up with this same idea independently (I think further indicating its obviousness), but also thought of an alternative that achieves nearly the same result.

What about reducing knight health to 3, and slash damage to 1.5? I feel like knight vs. knight combat would be mostly unchanged, as the ratio between the the damage of slash and health is preserved, while only somewhat increasing the value of jab.

I know this seems off-topic, but consider that this now makes knight vs. archer combat somewhat different, too. First, the knight can no longer kill him with a single slash; he must either double slash or do a combo of slash and jab. In addition, the archer at least has a chance of killing a knight with a single volley, albeit remote.

As I've said before, I realize balance is a tricky business, and other values may prove out of whack if this change is made, but that's just the nature of the beast. It is exceptionally rare in a game like this to be able to make any substantive tweak and just call it a day.

It seems something must be done, though. This game has only 3 classes, so it seems a terrible waste if one of them is only at all useful in the hands of exceptional players. If you disagree with this paragraph, I challenge you to support your position, as it is widely known that archer is the most rarely played class; there is a tangible reason for that.

 

Hierbo, I believe the change to 4:2, (as it was 3:1.5 in classic) is due to the OPness of Archers in classic, and the devs decided archers shouldn't be able to stand after taking a hit. Mostly from Action Unlim, that mod was explored.

 

I see, so it was already tried and deemed too favorable to archers.

While we're on the subject, has it been shown to still be the case, taking into account current mechanics, particularly those of knights' fighting?

 

The problem with archers wasn't the damage, it was the long range shield breaking. In classic a critical mass of archers meant that everything on the field died and you were forced to either tunnel or simply not leave your own base.

 

It would be EPIC if and archer could knife again. But maybe you could swap between knife and grapple. You couldn't use them both at the same time. OR MAYBE add another class like assassin which could endlessly wall run (climbing) but cannot stay in the position and could use a knife. No shield No protection. Perfectly balanced.

 

Yes.

 

:D

 

If that is true, the outcome wouldn't be the same under the current system, as a knight isn't shield stunned by arrows, except at close range, correct?

 

Please no. Just no. The knife archer times were dark times. I don't have a quote, but i'm pretty sure the devs have already stated, multiple times infact, that the knife will never come back because of it's extreme OPness.

 

There are also probably plenty quotes about no new classes unless you feel like modding them in...The game is frustrating enough to balance with 3 classes...don't need more.

But anyway, I think I've said all I can say on this matter about what would balance archer, so I will probably stalk this thread more than post in it now.