Archer changes general

> Be @Geti
> Appease the baddies
> 2014
>The movie

 

Which is why nobody builds bulk in Wood, even little half-assed walls are made with Stone because Wood is vulnerable to Knights sword damage as well fire. "Bomb arrows a shit", but are better than Fire Arrows which are nigh useless unless the enemy team is really asking to be raped by building big wood buildings. Nobody builds anything important with Wood. [except maybe catas and ballistae, actually]

Ok then, so you've done 2 Hearts at close range and you're charging your next shot, by which time the Knight has closed the gap as their Slash is already done charging [or they can just jabspam you to death]? Nah. Also, implying you have a water arrow on you at the time. The trishot stun doesn't last long enough to sneak in a grapplestomp. That Knight will be up and on you before your next volley even has the 3.9 seconds it needs to charge up.

B-but muh Geti, if you're using stuns to support a Knight who kills instantly with his doubleslash, how are you dealing damage yourself? The Knight is just netting the kill before you can deal damage.

with all respect I CAN LITERALLY STAND DIRECTLY BENEATH AN ARCHER WITH MY SHIELD FACING FORWARDS WHILE HE SHOOTS ME IN THE HEAD, AND DEFLECT FUCKING ARROWS

So then more Knights learn to angle their Shield diagonally upwards to protect their heads? Because honestly there's little reason to ATM. That way you're vulnerable if there is an Archer above you and an Archer in front of you, because you have to pick between shielding your legs or your head as is most urgent. I can understand lag would be a problem but there must be workarounds to the current bullshit situation.
'Their armour is weak at the neck… and beneath the arm.' -Legolas, on the merits of tight shield hitboxes

>be you
>criticise Geti for talking about game balance
>in a game balance thread
the shitposting, it's real

 

> be @bobotype
> Play game for 10 days
> Balance expert
> 2014
> The Movie



> Coming soon to a theater near you

 

Although I don't agree with practically everything Bobotype says (There are a few good points buried in his posts, but they are done a little too extreme imo), I have to admit provoking and generally rude posts like @Arcrave 's are neither helping the issue nor showing the quality of the community.

May we please get back on topic and stop with these arguments before yet another thread is locked?

 

>be @Crabmaster
>be reasonable and right about everything.

 

off topic but I feel it's important to say:
the issue isn't the amount of blowing up done but the amount of random deaths from mass clusterfucks. I feel like if you did some serious redesign to kegs (so retards cannot run with them and net guaranteed damage) and changed bomb damage to people to 2 (MAYBE 1.75h) it would be much more help. You would retain the ability to break stalls but mass killings from projectile spam would be much less common and battles and sieging in general would be longer and more fun if you didn't die randomly every 2nd life.


other than that, learn to grapple, all you unable archers

 

archers are op coz archers 1v3 knights easily.
source: im a ultra pro archer.

 

Honestly no point responding to Arcrave, wondering if he's been given some kind of warning yet. Picture is pretty funny but just not needed here.

Thank you, and I'm trying not to be "extreme" so when I am please point it out

Someone was saying that Archer's strength is in being able to take down whatever superweapons the enemy team brings at you. In that respect, they should definitely be able to snipe out Knights who are priming bombs or carrying Kegs IMO without just causing an Al Qaeda situation, and then we would have to worry less about clusterfucks if we had competent Archers on-side.

GRAPPLING DOES NOT SOLVE ALL OF THE ARCHER'S PROBLEMS

 

Yeah Bomb damage is fine, they're pretty much as they should be in that respect as an important part of the Knight and it's fair that they can kill an Archer. Their delivery method is what's bullshit. They can be "bowled" across water, so if you're an Archer in water and there are no overhangs you have no chance of escaping a properly cooked bomb; and the Knight is invulnerable to arrows while priming the Bomb whether in land, or in water. That's a real gripe for me, and objectively, independent of my opinion, it means the Knight is honestly pretty at home in water while Archers and Builders flounder. After all, Archers' arrows fall off in water/Grapple can't be used, and Builder can't build blocks on the surface, but the Knight's kit all works fine. Boats? He don't need no stinkin' boats.

Archers could be your answer to Knights hammering away at defences solo and attritioning them down. Knight starts to cook Bomb>gets shot, if he dies while cooking it then it falls where he does. "suicide bombing" as a tactic will actually involve the death of the Knight.

 

it actually does if you do it properly

 

wooden walls, stone walls, stone walls, enclosed spaces with no room to grapple, floundering in water with nothing to grapple from, Knights who actually know how to dodge and spam jab [there are a lot of these].
A one sentence generalization about grappling "properly" does not solve the Archer's problems, Ej and all 4 people who liked that pithy comment. Low quality reply.

 

dont get your self in those situations in the first place.

 

So you're stating then that those situations are problems for Archer, as well as problems which can't be solved by grappling. What's with all these deep, well thought out one sentence replies, anyway.

 

Omg!

Someone ban him from this thread...

 

omg bobo do you want archers to be some invincible superman monkey pricks that can handle any situation?

 

What, in the same way Knights are unstoppable juggernaut tanks that can only be killed by another Knight or the best architecture in the Builder's arsenal or some wack ass CQC grapple stomping from the "ranged" class? Nah, I just want their basic kit to actually be useful. Hello one sentence reply.
Where am I asking for invincibility/Superman's flying/laser vision? Where am I asking for them to be pricks?
Edit: To bring this back into relevance to the title of the thread and into perspective, I'm asking for some kind of vulnerability in Shielded Knights to Archers so that Archers can have a miniscule chance of killing them 1 on 1 at range with basic kit, plus some kind of buyable Lockpick to let Archers infiltrate Doors, or even a melee punch [0.5 Hearts] that can slowly break everything except Stone stuff and Wood blocks.

 

knights can be killed by both archers and builders. they dont have to be the best.
archer vs knight a decent archer will nearly always win.
why are we having a 1v1 with archers anyways? arnt they support class?
the reason im using 1sentence replys and not really bothering with my punctuation is because this argument has been made a million times before and it always leads to 1 thing.
pls buff archers coz knights2op.

let me post you something from another thread.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2014, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2014 ---

what we want is not to buff the archer but for a way to be compensated for the support we give.

 

I have also seen those rebuttals to suggestions similar to mine on the forums before, and I can tell you I have reasons why those rebuttals are silly, reasons which are not solely mine and have been posted before [including in this thread]. Also, I'll paraphrase to save space.

The thing is, you're stating there that the Knight is shit. On an equal playing field with a decent Archer and a decent Knight, the Knight will "nearly always win" because their kit is just better.

And that's where you go wrong. From the early days, Archer wasn't designed to be a Support, Archer was designed to snipe out enemies at range, which is why the wiki lists them as the "ranged" class. But Archer was bullshit powerful, and was nerfed into the husk we see today, with a jumble of leftover and tacked on abilities. This is what caused the misconception that Archers were a "support" class, because their kit became so shitty that that was what they were good for. In terms of Support abilities, Archers have a brief stun to lend to allies in a fight, as well as a Water Arrow [matched in the Knight's Water Bomb, btw]. As Geti said they also have a rarely used ability as an afterthought to attach a fish to an arrow, which is not widely advertised. All the rest of the class, including the fact they are called ARCHERS and not for example "priests", is shaped towards them being able to threaten enemies at range solo, making them jump through hoops to reach defences undamaged. Builder is the true support, providing ammo replenishment, defences, offensive sapping though said defences, health regen, added respawns, situational heavy weapons, and even teleports.
This will now become my standard reply to the misconception that Archers are a "Support", which somehow translates to them not being allowed to have gameplay further than "attack someone while they are fighting someone else".

But Knights have bomb jumps for this problem, and they're arrow-proof while preparing it too [I've seen my arrows blocked from the front by a Knight shielding down in prep for a bomb jump before, as well as done it myself while surfing].

complains about people trying to CQC Knights, then encourages people to practice in it a lot to be good at CQCing Knights. Okay friend. You're right the first time though: Getting kills with basic kit from RANGE should be the Archer's modus operandi, and it should have a high skill ceiling.

Geti said something about actors and how it wasn't feasible and stuff, so it isn't the answer.

(CITATION NEEDED) So what does the Archer do then, poonce around until a Knight shows up, meaning you have no reason to have Archers as a class at all if you have no Knights? What a flawed gameplay mechanism. What, exactly, is so wrong about the Archer being a hazard at long range? The enemy team can get Archers as well, ffs.

lolnope, Kegs. Also Bomb Arrows can be Shielded against by Knights. And nobody builds large Wooden structures, get with the times. As for a Legolas shotting special Arrows, I don't think Arcrave understands the cost involved to do that.

Which is exactly why they need something more; no viable terrain destruction except on most expensive special arrow [whereas Builders and Knights can fuck up terrain from the get go], and no way of netting lots of kills to afford Bomb Arrows in bulk and be a powerhouse like Knights, and absolute unstoppable close up rape when trying to cap objectives.
Arcrave trying to imply that the Archer is OP with his posts needs a lot of twisting of the facts in order to do.

TL;DR of who is Support:
Builder:*teleports teammates *builds spawn points *builds defences for allies to shoot/jump from *builds traps *builds vehicles to transport allies *saps defences of enemy so team-mates can get to objective *replenishes team-mate ammo *replenishes team-mate health *makes ladders so team-mates can get into defences *Is listed as Support on the wiki

Archer: *fires Water Arrows [which Knights have equivalent to], *Can briefly stun an enemy, *Can attach a Fish to an arrow for combat heal, not that it's publicised or is useful to Knights in instakill combat with lots of Hearts around.

 

did i state that the knight is shit anywhere in my post?