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Archer changes general

Discussion in 'Balance' started by Landoo2, Oct 31, 2013.

?

should there be arrows that do more damage then just 1 heart?

  1. yes, but they should cost much

    15 vote(s)
    15.0%
  2. yes, because 4 arrows are too much to kill a knight

    38 vote(s)
    38.0%
  3. no, because archers are already overpowered

    28 vote(s)
    28.0%
  4. no, because ..... (post your reason in the thred pls)

    19 vote(s)
    19.0%
  1. Superblackcat

    Superblackcat baideist baide Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    462
    If we're going to talk about NUMBERS, Then maybe we should go with.

    Knight: 2.3846712 Archer: 2.78193
    3.18239 and 49829...12834

    I think those numbers make perfect sense.

    Anyways, Now arrow slashing is gone, Also, you are saying in a 15 v 15 game, bombs aren't easy to see. Maybe you shouldn't sit with 5 other archers shooting at knights waiting for the bomb eh? Would I: Throw bomb at 4 archers, or throw bomb at 1 archer. As long as the 1 archer isn't Trumbles or Aurora, I'd go with 4 archers.

    Also, pretty high skill level to aim for 1 archer with a bomb jump... It's more than likely you are sitting at the top of a tower, and the knight is bomb jumping up. In that case. You can jump off and grapple... or shoot him out of the sky. Stun him with a water arrow. So many choices.



    Also, I've got to say, it seems like you mostly play builder. As you've griefed multiple times on BD now...
     
    UnnamedPlayer, Aurora- and Auburn like this.
  2. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    @Superblackcat, you made a mistake with your calculations, the first number is 2.3846715
     
  3. Lastly, you know what you should probably have at any given time if there's a horde of knights rushing you, cooking their bombs? Water arrows. It's an unblockable stun (if they shield it, you just have to hit them directly. There's nothing funnier than pinning down a knight with a bomb and watching him blow up.
     
  4. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    Personally I find it funnier to drown a knight in water arrows while they are underwater then making them kill themselves.
     
    emasame likes this.
  5. which can be shot away by one arrow, especially with all the legolas shots. 4*3 = 12 arrows coming at you
    which can be hard to throw up high to a tower
    which costs 25 gold
    which the archers can easily grapple away from
     
  6. Aurora-

    Aurora- Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    59
    This is the problem, how can you possibly ask for more balance when you haven't even played as a knight? You need to experience both knight and archer to even come up with a valid balance suggestion as you haven't even seen archers from a knights perspective.
    Archer is my favourite class by far but this doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what other classes the game has to offer. =]

    As an archer you need be aware of your surroundings and knowing when to retreat or advance is key to your survival. If you master this then you can avoid being killed by a bomb or slashed to death by a knight. ::):
     
    Vampire, Auburn, Reudh and 1 other person like this.
  7. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    You're mistaken

    Don't bring this into the equation, it makes me cry.

    I have played knight in the past, I just found it so boring because it was too easy to kill archers and builders, so your only threat was other knights which would stomp you (me).
     
  8. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    You obviously haven't played recently. Back when arrow slashing was still a thing, it was easy to just slash your way to victory. Now, you get anywhere near an archer as a knight, you get an arrow to the face. A good bomb throw is now the only efficient way to take out an archer as a knight. Normally if you can slash the archer, it's because the archer messed up, not because you're skilled.
     
  9. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    and yet there is no efficient way to down out a knight as an archer. You can use water arrows, but you need a water arrow + 2 arrows to only deal half damage - if you hit them. That costs 20 coins :(.

    That's the point, I have no skill as a knight, yet I go around easily owning archers. Reason? Archers are hard to play, therefore should be buffed.
     
  10. Auburn

    Auburn Prepare Yourself! Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Donator Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    734
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If an archer can take down a knight from a distance, people are going to play archer because they can sit back, and kill knights from the safety of their towers. And knights will start dropping like flies. If archers get buffed any more, there won't really be a reason for there to be knights.

    Let me guess, there were no people with actual skill? Honestly, since the removal of arrow slashing, archers are so much harder to kill, and they can generally stun you before you have a chance to get to them.

    Maybe you should just get better
     
  11. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I never said archers should be able to take out knights from a distance, but up close it takes 2x Legolas, and with the amount of risk applied (where one hit from the knight means death) I really don't understand why it takes so much to kill them.

    ???. No, all the not 'no-life' archers came in to attack, but that made them die. All the 'no-life' archers sat on towers and shot at my shield doing nothing.

    Yes, maybe I should gain 35329508235903 x the amount of skill a knight has to beat them. That makes sense, I should defo not just switch to knight, steal kills, never die, and claim I am the best ever because I have kd of 32905203502352395-23592305923052395323059242-3902-30
     
  12. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    If you're using only Legolas shots you don't know what you're doing and you can't complain about how much it takes to kill knights. You can charge two full Legolas shots and try to melee them, or you can backpedal while shooting semicharged shots and kill them in a quarter of the time in a safer way. Or you can do what archers are meant to do and butter them up first by trying to harass them at range so they're easier to kill at close range.

    It seems that general consensus among experienced Kaggers is that archers are mostly fine (if not a little underpowered), and any major changes to the archer's overall strength could make them annoying and imbalanced. General consensus among less experienced players is that archers are bad. When I was newer I thought this too. Can we (and should we) try to find a way to make archers more accessible instead of buffing / nerfing them?
     
    Vampire likes this.
  13. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I do do single shots, but I find it much better to do a Legolas as it does 3x as much damage. Again, buttering knights is boring as Hell.
     
  14. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Three times as much damage? In like triple the time. It does a good burst of damage but doesn't come close to doing the most damage per second. And although harassing knights isn't the archer's only purpose, if you only play archer to kill people with legolas shots archer is not the class for you. If you don't get any satisfaction from grappling around and taking knights down one arrow at a time then don't play archer. "Buttering up the knights" does not have to mean sitting on a tower and spamming arrows, and I agree that that's boring.
     
  15. Superblackcat

    Superblackcat baideist baide Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    462
    Also, it takes one legolas and one single shot.
     
  16. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    If you don't have a crappy ping and/or miss them as they're about to slash you (one hit kill).

    Of course I get satisfaction from that, but with so many knights below me, it's hard to jump around above and around their heads. It's also likely one will get a bomb and I won't notice.

    ??? In what world does archer do most DPS? It takes 0 seconds of charing to get a 1 heart damage attack, about a second two get a two heart, and 2 seconds (?) to get a 4 heart damage attack. Whereas to do a 1 heart damage attack, you've got to charge for 1 second as archer. And about 5 seconds for a 3 heart damage attack.
     
  17. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    So fast ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
     
  18. - If you have a crappy ping, then of course you're bloody going to play badly.
    - If you miss, then that's your fault! It's not hard to hit a knight at <10 tile ranges unless they're hiding.
    - Archer does huge amounts of dps. As Trumbles has pointed out before, arrow damage is NOT based on charge, it is based on velocity. Spamming no-charge arrows from a high height can deal 1 heart instead of 0.5. A competent archer who can reliably plink a knight with 0.5 or 1 heart arrows will have them down very fast.
    Therefore, one could argue, if it were even bloody about DPS, a knight has the highest BURST of dps (4 damage in a second and a half's charge), but an archer can SUSTAIN the most DPS.

    But, on the whole, why the hell are we bickering about DPS anyway? This isn't WoW.
     
    Auburn likes this.
  19. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899

    You started it :(.
     
  20. Nice reading comprehension.
     
    Aurora- likes this.