Archer changes general

Maybe we should just go ahead and rename this thread "Brainstorming Archer Buffs" or something like that. Considering this thread is about deadlier arrows. We really have gone off subject quite a bit lol.

 

git gud

I'm honestly interested in the idea of letting other classes climb archer arrows, maybe have them break sooner though. After all, archer is really supposed to be the "utility support".

It'd be a legit tactic in the game as well, because laddering builders die pretty quickly. Makes the archer a valuable asset when he doesn't have any special arrows left, while being somewhat easy to counter by just making these platform windows we see a lot already.

 

G-grapples are arrows I swear! >.>

Yeah, or maybe "Balance" instead of "Buffs", mainly because we don't wanna buff archer to be what it was during early beta, boy oh boy was it OP before they nerfed literally every aspect of the class.

Also yeah, that is a good one, being able to climb ally arrows. Would give people a reason to make arrow ladders again!

 

What's the point in giving the archer double jump or more agility? Sure it makes him or her more agile but that doesn't help the archer be more useful, it doesn't bring anything to the team and it doesn't help in any way except avoiding death a bit better or get over that high wall but still end up dead quickly enough because they can't do much in a fight. The grapple should suffice I think.

The arrow climbing for everyone seems like a waste honestly. I mean... we have wall running, slash jumping, grapple, bomb jumping, trampolines, ladders... so many ways of getting over obstacles and buildings that allowing arrow ladders to affect everyone seems pointless. It simply overlaps all other methods that we have at our disposal and makes them less useful.

My suggestion is either aim for flat out damage bonus to charge shot, from 1 heart to 2 hearts and have triple shoot arrows only do 1 hearts of damage OR give them the ability to placed item traps/snares that contribute to combat in some way (dealing damage or immobilizing your opponents).

Dropping the whole "support/utility only archer" mentality nonsense and making it the second combat class of KAG seems like a good idea in my opinion since it offers a clear role of what it has to do and the extra utility it already benefits from will set it aside from the knight class which is more focused on combat and less on destroying buildings and ballista/cata.

The archer doesn't need to compete with the knight as the best combat class but it has to hold it own in a fight so when you wish to battle you actually stop and think "Do I wish to go melee as a knight or ranged as an archer?" while still remaining an asset to the team no matter your choice.

 

do i wish to deal constant damage from distance and be virtually immortal or become a class that needs to kill that range class?

HMMMMMMM

^philosophy behind making the range class as strong as the melee one

 

But it's not support/utility only. It can still kill enemies fairly efficiently, I constantly get 2:1 KD even when I go out to the front lines. When discussing archer's damage dealing abilities we have to keep in mind that it is indeed possible to have multiple archers rain a hail of arrows to the enemy's general direction.

Now I wouldn't mind arrows that do 1,5 hearts damage honestly, but we should aim to make the class have its unique strength. If the strength is to kill other people, the class just gets frustrating to play against as it has superior range. Therefore focusing on utility is a good option.

And while it's true that we have a plethora of ways to get over structures, they usually require a decent amount of resources or have risk involved. All the other options ought to be more efficient than arrow ladders, but the arrow ladders would be immedietly accessible while easy to counter, just like laddering builders, given your team has superior knights

 

i think supplies on arrows would make archers int a great support class, it would be perfect to fill the archer utility spot, maybe it could be a type of arrow like a crate arrow plus, bison arrows

 

wasnt the hedline of this thred deadly archers, and not grappling hook.. ?

 

Hmm... 1,5 hearts worth of damage for a charge shot sounds decent enough since it means other archers won't die from one arrow. Although I have to admit that I haven't seen many archers that can brag with a 2:1 KD. Then again, a good KD ratio doesn't seem like it would matter that much as long as you manage to offer some advantage to the team. I'm not trying to suggest making the archer a one man army like the knight can be at times (although I find that to be impossible really, considering the archer's limitations and charge time) but increasing the damage makes the archer more worthwhile in a battle, he gains more coin and could bring the archer to the same level of independence as the builder and knight. Thus reason for my damage boost suggestion.

On a side note, although I understand the fear of an archer's arrow barrage, let us not forget that knights can already shield against those arrows quite easily not to mention that you can counter with your own archers. Adding the fact that bomb arrows now do more damage to structures, camping in towers can turn against the enemy's archers once your own archers start blowing up their cover with well placed bomb arrows. I would also go as far as suggesting adding a vehicle that counter's an archer's arrow barrage and shields attackers in case it becomes impossible to approach a tower with archers camping on it.

I can't say that I'd consider it fun having to stand there and shoot arrows at a wall in order to provide my team mates with a makeshift ladder instead of joining the fight. I can understand that it would be cheaper when compared to other methods but is that a good thing? For me atleast, it seems like it would just dumb down tower siege tactics as knights and builders might rely on archers to craft them a path instead of learning how to bomb jump properly or use the wall running function more skillfully. Of course this also depends on how good such a feature would turn out, it might be either very useful which would make other options obsolete or it might end up unreliable and useless. I also fear that it might make building slightly useless but without proper testing it's difficult to say. Overall I'm still not that convinced that it would be a good feature for the archer.

 

I think the only thing that the archer really needs, is that his arrows just stun/interrupt attacks for a short second when he hits (If charged to the 'Golden' stage). I often try to get a hit in when a knight charges towards me, and I do get that arrow in, but then he just kills me anyway - archers aren't a big enough threat for the knight to care about.

 

I'm a bit worried about that since it might disable knights too easily, then again knights can still slash/jab arrows mid flight so it might be a 50-50 shot at that.

 

Its an interesting concept. You could buy them in say, stacks of four. It disables any door for X amount of time. The only problem with it that I see is because doorways are 1x2, selecting which door to unlock would be hard to do, especially in the limited time you would have. And if you made it automatically unlock the doors you are near, it could sometimes be wasted on ones you dont want.

 

I don't think we need to implement any features of the like. Simply allowing archers light kegs would bring them much more utility. People might whine "it's OP!", but in fact an archer grappling up your tower with a keg on his back is such a high alarm state and clearly visible, that unless the archer is extremely proficient with his grapple, he'll soon be a dead nigger.

This would be incredibly balanced in the same way as bombjumping is; it's powerful when executed by a skilled player, but another competent player can easily deny it.

 

I'd suggest perhaps having the lock-pick disable the targeted door block and any other door blocks directly connected to them.

Example:

All four would be affected since they come in direct contact therefore you would require only one lockpick to get past the doors.



Only the first two door blocks get disabled since they don't come in direct contact with the other two, therefore you'd require two lockpicks to get through both set of doors.



By opting for this method one could easily disable a 1x2 door and would discourage people to spam doors like crazy since it would disable ALL the doors that are connected to the targeted door block and make players actually try to create a bit of space between doors.

This would make the archer an interesting infiltration class and I can definitely see the possibilities in harassing enemy players by leaving mines in there, using their own workshops against them or simply allowing team mates to enter a tower/hall through the front door.

Might also suggest perhaps giving them the ability to change their team colors? For example and archer could slay an enemy archer, move towards the corpse and switch clothing (maybe some button on the corpse only for archers) which will make the archer's color switch to that of the enemy teams but he/she can still get attacked by their enemies and shows hostile when holding the mouse cursor over them. It would basically be an improved version of the corpse disguise you might see in certain matches. I figure this might help infiltrate enemy buildings while also give that stealth aspect that would allow archers to get the first shot on unaware enemies. Of course, upon death the archer's color reverts back to normal.

 

I agree, a lock pick would be very useful, especially because archers currently lack a utility ability. Also they could have other things that could be support, like arrows that can shoot small items like bombs and stone and hearts to resupply people.

 

Back on topic, I don't agree with deadlier arrows but I like the idea of something like flippers to move through water faster.

 

There is no point in stealth infiltrations if you cannot get quck, CQC kills.

 

Or sabotage.

 

I also mentioned Interrupt Attacks, but might have the same effect if there's more than one archer, yeah.. You're right.