Archer changes general

Maybe we should add like special arrows eg:
1. Zipline: You can slide down. You press s like a vehicle then you slide down or you can stay where you are.
2. Smoke: Names says all
3. Better water: Actaully places water there or does more damage on a kngiht etc.
4. Ice: freezes water and freezes players forcing them to tap left click to break out.

 

3. would not work.

3. means that the entire physcis engine would have to be changed to suit this arrow. Or if nothing was changed, all a archer would have to do is shoot the top of the highest point on the map, and the entire map would fill.

1. Would be too hard to implement in game and would be too hard to use.

2. Would never be used in game.

4. Is an OK idea. Not good, just OK. I think of freeze as more of an environmental effect rather than a PvP effect. Being able to freeze water so that some players can jump on it to get over towers built at the water's edge would be cool. But there are other things that could be added that would work better.

 

When i mean by the water and ice ones i mean like the water arrows kind of placesdew there so it coulb be frozen or you could have invincibility to fire. The use of the ice arrows it could freeze enemies in the water and freeze them after thay have been hit by the water arrrow.
Smoke would be good cause it make that players, that has been hit or is in the smoke, screen to go black or very dark grey so you can't really see anything. Your team can easily see through the smoke.
The zipline is easy. It acts like a massive vehicle were player can sit in it then they can control them selves on it.

 

I feel the smoke thing would be highly OP if your team can still see through it - and what he means with the water arrow now working, is that one 'block' of water acts like an endless waterflow. Shoot an arrow into the corner of the map and watch the map fill. As for the zipline, it would basicly have the same purpose as the hook.

 

Ok maybe the team has like the same amount of eyesight in smoke as enemies. It only you who can see through it perfectly. And NO KNIGHT SMOKE BOMBS so its not OPed

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2013, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2013 ---

Ok maybe the team has like the same amount of eyesight in smoke as enemies. It only you who can see through it perfectly. And NO KNIGHT SMOKE BOMBS so its not OPed. What i mean by the better water arrows (maybe called dew arrows) It makes kind of a film of water on that player for maybe 15 secs. That water is only on the player or on the ground. Not flowing water but kind of like water but doesn't flow or you can see it only spots of water (you might not understand).

 

The smoke bombs was then turned annoying from OP - the smoke bomb idea does not work. As for the water arrows, that seems a bit more reasonable - what you mean is that the water arrow, upon hit of course, gave the targets hit within its splash radius a shorter effect on their screen in form of water to obscure their vision. If this would work or not would depends on the duration and the effect played whilst affected by the water arrow. I'd say that and maybe even combined with around 1,5-2,3 seconds of slowed movement speed would make the water arrow a tad better.

 

And it adds water on them so they can be frozen

 

Rendering someone utterly helpless like that is never a good idea in games when it's so easy to accomplish

 

I realized something today. It is kinda odd that something named the Legolas Shot is actually highly inaccurate...because the archer in general does not fire very accurately at all...

Here are some pictures from shooting at two angles from the same spot, I didn't get screenshots but this inaccuracy gets worse the further away you go(as to be expected).


So yeah...maybe if archers didn't have to deal with not knowing if their shots will hit a person or not maybe thing'd be better...Never let RNG decide how well you do in a game like this!(at least not with this much of a variation) We already move around enough, we don't need random numbers adding to the hard to angle shots!

 

That's pretty insane. I knew there was RNG, has been since classic, but that amount of it? Fucking unacceptable.

 

I was playing a bit today and even the noobs were quick to identify how underpowered archer is. It didn't help I was tearing shit up as knight (I was said to have "borderline unfair skill") but it's true, archer needs more.

 

I don't want archer's to have TOO much though... They shouldn't ruin the fun. It's fine that knights are the big killers, but archers just need more ways of trying to prevent the knight from killing him

 

I mean, today I got a pretty good KD as an archer but that was just because half of the enemies didn't know how to use shield. Later on I paired together with Strum, he was a knight and kept supplying me with bomb arrows. That was pretty effective, but I merely acted as his sapper-bitch while he did all the work. Not necessarily really fun.

Sure, using grapple hook to outwit and outrun enemy knights is fun and the main reason I still bother to play archer, but you're not really helping your team by running away. Meanwhile as a knight I could be wrecking stuff and supplying my team with unlimited kegs.

Archers are TOO niche. They'll be useful during 5% of the game.

They need a buff.

I propose 1,5 hearts of damage from close to mid range.
Stun range slightly increased.
Archer gets more velocity while charging an arrow, doesn't affect his jumps though. It helps stomp knights.
Coinage increased. You get more coins the closer you are to the enemy you damage.
Able to grapple while charging the bow, move cancel shot to space (only while charging).
You should be able to change arrow types in the middle of legolas shot, changing arrows should also be more fluid.

Overall these changes would encourage more agressive play from the archer, and the archer would actually benefit from it. It should also be promoted in the tutorial.

 

I agree for the most part, but maybe not the grapple while charging the bow, and also the archer getting more velocity when charging arrows...Those two would put archer back into the OPness it was before The Nerf(well...both nerfs on archer and buffs on knight was the big issue with that update.)

Balancing is tricky and should be done one buff or nerf at a time to get it just right, not a bunch at once! Kinda like when making a bread batter when cooking, add water in small amounts at a time till it is just right, and not all at once because you might add too much.

 

But the thing is, if you're looking out, archers are easy to kill at close range. You can also "skillfully" break their arrows mid-flight as you dash towards them. When they come in to stomp, you can also slash them before they can get a shot. You might take some damage but the archer dies, you will live.

The thing with 1,5dmg arrows is also that you can take out a knight with good triple shot if he's not paying attention - and the chances for them to be paying attention are higher if the archer will be at mid range.

A long range archer won't kill with the triple shot.

 

How is making the archer more efficient or useful going to "ruin the fun"? Unless you define ~fun~ by being able to take down tons of archers as a knight without any need for skill and taking little to no damage, in which case, have you asked yourself if that is fun for the archers? Or even balanced for that matter? Also why should archers be given MORE ways of avoiding knights? They already have grappling hooks and adding more ways just makes them even more useless by running away and wasting time instead of contributing to the match in some meaningful way.

Even the newbies noticed that the archers require a buff and I think most of Monsteri's suggestion might provide a much needed boost in order to be more efficient in a fight. The only suggestion I don't agree with is being able to grapple while charging the bow since I can imagine it would make kitting as an archer VERY easy once you start jumping and using the grappling hook to move on land pretty fast and release volley after volley of arrows.

EDITED: Could also remove the bloody arrow slashing which would solve some problems I think. Seriously, that sh*t is annoying as f*ck.

 

Yeah maybe stomps could use a buff too. Maybe make it so that archers never take collision damage when they successfully stomp?

Also I had a bunch of miscellaneous ideas like maybe all classes could be locked into normal view range whereas only archers can zoom out into farther view, making them better scouts.

 

I might've just been me saying it poorly, but I just meant that archers shouldn't be as efficent at killing as knights - just give them more tricks or something to make them a bit better in Archer vs Knight combat. The archer v archer is just fine I feel.

 

If you are allowing yourself to be close enough where a knight can kill you there is an issue, the skill comes in staying just outside that range as you don't have a shield. Also the 3 hits to kill a knight and an increased stun range are a pretty good buff in themselves to not also need improved running away skills with the grapple and speed increase...

Also yeah, slicing arrows out of the air is annoying...and stomping is half and half...

 

As someone that plays mostly Archer these days, the thing that frustrates me is that Knights can negate all of my damage capabilities at range with the shield and can slash me before I have the change to hit them with a triple shot in close range. Even worse is that I have to triple shot them twice at close range if they use their shield and they only have to slash me once.

Trying to kill builders is a pain as well. Mostly luck.

I love the mobility of the grappling hook and the utility of arrow types, but when there are so many ways for me to be one shot before I can even deal damage, it's a little irritating.

That point is moot if they can just shield to block any damage that you can do at the range that you're safe.