Archer changes general

I was a bit sad the burgers were taking away... I always carried a burger or 2 for my knight friend when we ran together, and just saying, those 2 burgers made us stay alive for looooong.

 

It's a four slot inventory that's sticking right in the middle of your screen, how bloody long would it take you to find a heart and click it when it's right in front of you? Also that only applies IF you still have bombs left, in which case pressing space would do just fine. You can also flee and click on it while running which works quite well for me from what I noticed (as long as I'm not surrounded or they're too close to hit me, in which case you'd be boned regardless of heart arrows I think).

Even so, if you don't have time to open your inventory and click a heart which takes a 1-2 seconds, what chances do you think an archer has in charging their shot, switching ammo, noticing that you're hurt since you'd probably not be the only injured knight around (besides actually shooting other enemy knights or blowing up a wall or killing an enemy archer) AND waiting for the arrow to hit you. All in all I'd say all those would take a bit of time which adds up. Not to mention that you might not get healed at all IF the archer decides that it would be better to heal someone else and not you (or just go out shooting instead of healing you) thus making it unreliable unless you manage (somehow) to group 1 knight and 1 archer into a per so they'd stick together forever and ever and ever. Sounds romantic no? Makes me think of that twilight crap... ugh. Sickening. Let's not go down that line.

And still this can be more easily solved by adding shortcut keys so players can easily, quickly and reliably access healing items and ammo through the click of a button which would make the whole heart arrows and the resulting 'teamwork' (more like knight babysitting since the archer can run away fairly easily) obsolete and unreliable.

I can understand people wishing to give the archer a purpose but, why go for this when there are better alternatives that don't involve giving the archer even more situational ammo that costs coin which you don't have because you can't kill anything in the first place?

 

Yeah Auburn, I think Raelin's logic is better here.

 

I don't really get it though.. Why add an arrow MADE for support like that, when the archer might as well move down/up to where the knight is, and throw him the heart/burger? I mean, it worked fine when my friend and I did it

 

I would like to give this a go. Simple changes that would nudge the Archer class in the natural direction in my opinion.

If you look at it:

-Increasing arrow damage would turn their water gun into a weapon. This is especially welcome against sturdy Knights that can also block most arrows easily with their shield and slashing.

-Removing RNG would make the main attack more skill-based and more accurate. I don't think I need to explain why skill-based is good, but about increased accuracy I can say that it would, again, allow Archers to deal more damage, although indirectly compared to the arrow damage boost mentioned above.

-Better stomp would give Archers a natural secondary attack. I must admit that I'm not pro enough to say how good Archers are at stomping right now, but stomping sounds like a good way to extend their attack arsenal as they can climb and grapple to high locations easily. This attack would be balanced by the fact that Archers don't want to get into the middle of the fight because they are fragile.

Granted, I haven't been around long enough to experience overpowered Archers and what made them that.

 

Fair point but then you look at it this way, both are extremes; if you add heart arrows you add an unreliable method of healing that requires babysitting knights and has little reward in it yet high requirements in order to perform efficiently but if you add quick slots then you have a very reliable method of healing yourself by spamming the heal button and making it OP. How to fix this? Simple, add a cooldown on the number of times a person can use a heart/burger in a row so they can't just spam the heal button. This way self healing would still be more accurate and reliable then heart arrows and not easy to spam since the devs could control the time intervals between heals.

I can understand that you wish to add teamwork but if you haven't noticed teamwork in KAG is almost non-existent, simply due to how difficult it is to coordinate people. Reason why you see 12 knights at the bottom of an enemy's tower slashing like crazy because they can't get in, atleast until one player gets fed up and switches to builder in order to build a ladder for them or how most people don't bother defending the keg carrier most of the times. Why is it as such? Because it's difficult to make people work as a team in such a game and the heart arrows seems like it has a lot of requirements (higher than shooting enemies and doing damage) in order to use efficiently and the rewards for using it are very few.

Oh I healed that knight for 1 heart, pity most knights can double slash for 4 hearts of damage or slash and jab for 3 hearts of damage or simply do 2 hearts of damage on average. This wouldn't even be teamwork, it would be more like forcing the archer to babysit the knight which honestly, I can think of more fun and useful things to do with my time (and inventory space) as an archer, such as breaking a hole in the enemy's base in order to retrieve their flag or burning down their base, or even taking out the enemy archers so they aren't such a nuisance or even use a water arrow to stun a group of enemy knights that were about to kill a friendly knight and watch as the friendly knight kills the helpless enemies. I think I'd save up more hearts that way by simply helping avoid damage or getting rid of the cause of all the damage (such as other knights or archers).

Regarding the arrows not costing coin and just being picked up. I actually read the description but forgot about that so you can scratch the coin requirements, my bad. Everything else I said? Still stands as far as I'm concerned.

All in all, I rest my case with this one since I think I've made my point pretty clear. I'd honestly prefer seeing the damage buff and all the others since those seem more worthwhile features for the archer class and more fun.

 

Maybe they should remove Water Bombs from the knights, and only allow archers to have those? (In arrow form, of course)

 

I feel like we are going around in circles with this thread. Most people who want to contribute do not want to have to read through these long essays of opinions, no offense to those who are writing them.

If I may, could we start just compiling all of the suggestions we want in list format. With bullets and what not. Makes for easier debating and more people can get involved with the conversation.

 

I think all that the archer needs as a buff is making the grappling hook stun enemies (with a second or so cooldown as to stop stunlocking) and stop blocks. Running away from a knight is easy with the grappling hook, but then that only works in wide open terrain where archers are already vulnerable. Most encounters with knights are when you are on the edge of you castle and a knight gets to you. There is probably aid right around the corner. Stopping him from attacking for a smidgin of time would probably be enough to save your life.

Yet on the other hand, if you are in a corner and are alone with a knight, killing him alone would be very hard. If you stunlock him, then you can't really shoot your bow. If you shoot your bow, he's already slashed you and you're dead.

Because of the short range of the grappling hook and the long range of the bow, seeing an archer on the field as aid to friendly knights would be rare. Archers are too fragile and a cooldown would make stunning effectively impossible. A water bomb would be more effective, and you don't need to be an archer for that.

As of right now, I feel the archer is next to useless once it slips from its perch. It can move extremely quick and can play dead (which is only slightly useful), but it can't use its ninja abilities for anything. it has no defenses up close, unless you count stomping (which I don't because its hella hard to do in practice).

 

Funfact, it takes exactly 71 arrows to break one wooden door...which means it takes 142 to get into any normal doorway.

Meanwhile about 13 slashes will break 2 wooden doors...

Why even bother let arrows do damage to doors if it is so weak... @~@

 

I think arrows doing damage to wood is just a coding convenience since Fire and Bomb arrows need to do damage as well.

I wonder if Water Arrows could break wood...

 

Arrows should totally smash wood blocks to pieces. Let it literally rain hail from the sky.

 

Water arrows do no damage at all to anything. I can confirm this.

 

Archers need a way of getting in doors. They have great stealth and movement, but I often find myself infront of a single wooden door to an empty enemy hall with nothing to do.

Even if it were as simple as getting through only wooden doors, archers would become more useful as a tool for back capping or breaking down defenses. And it only needs to work with wooden doors, as most of the time there are at least a couple wooden doors at halls from the beginning of the match.

I don't know, but archers need some way to get into some buildings. 71 arrows is way too many to break down a door.

 

@Nonsequitorian, you can use flaming- and bomb arrows to break down blocks. First ones can burn down a whole hallway of wooden doors.

 

Another great guy had the idea that Archers could use Lockpicks - if doors were connected, one lockpick would open them all. I liked that idea, would fix door spamming too.

 

Doors are already useless enough with corpses and items getting stuck in them, wooden doors being burned and chopped down(still say 71 arrows for one door is dumb), and boulders apparently being able to drill through them like paper. We don't need any major changes to help get into doors, if any more were added the game would just turn into TDM with a few walls here and there, that or the ugly old way of things were towers were super tall and annoying to climb. >.>

Also stone doors are 50 stone a piece! That is extremely hard to even use remotely spam like.

 

Yet they take up so much space and are often so hard to come by even with multiple workshops that that simply isn't economical. You don't need to blow a hole in a castle and then burn it down just to show how stealthy you are, because that would be really dumb. The whole point of having a play dead button and a grappling hook is to be stealthy. Why use a rare resource to burn down two doors and get rid of one of your biggest advantages over knights?

Hell, if we could always simply use bomb arrows and fire arrows, we'd be knights with bombs and more bombs, because knights have a whole lot of bombs to go arround. Bomb arrows are good for tearing through towers and fire arrows are good for stopping production and punishing quick repairs or such.

(I also think fire arrows should be much much easier to come by. 2 per inventory slot is ridiculous. Maybe 6 per slot would be better.)

Disagree. Stone doors are almost unstopable. They are easily the best defense against knights without kegs. Wooden doors are good but not great. They hold back attackers for long enough for backup ot arrive and thats all a defense as cheap as that really needs. If you're using wooden doors at all its either because you have not upgraded defense since the beginning of the match or can't afford to use your precious stone on somewhere petty like the backdoor.

Tall towers aren't really hard to climb as an archer. It's just good timing and you're scaling upwards faster than you can horizontally.

How often do you see an archer carrying a boulder around with him as he flies around? Never, that would take away the one weapon they have in the form of bows.

And that's where archers would like to get in. Grapple to the other side of the map, hide and a tree, and wait for the oportune moment to capture a fort deep behind lines. It would be stopped by even a simple builder, but the need to have somebody near every hall out of fear of getting sneakily taken would draw forces away from the front lines.