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Archer Utility?

Discussion in 'Archer' started by Karsonatorz, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. zollie20

    zollie20 Haxor

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    Well, basically yes. Archer IS a support class, and I dislike when others try to pretend it isn't.
     
  2. Conquerer

    Conquerer Shark Slayer

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    I object to your idea on how to play archer. You need to judge the distance and raise your cursor up accordingly. A skilled, or devastating archer could do this almost instantaneously, taking at most three shots to make contact.

    With the concept of one archer being smart, when I try to do this kind of stuff, I work with my team mate in team chat. That's essentially what team chat is for- strategically planning against the enemy.
     
  3. miniswrider

    miniswrider Bison Rider

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    98
    I think archers should be able to sneak into the base, and at least do some damage(-_-) close range. I know archers can shoot fire, and shoot bombs in midair, but outside of a tower, they are not very usefull, unless they are VERY good at dodging bombs and not getting trapped. when I play archer, I sometimtes can get 3 or 4 kills on front lines, then get trapped because I just used my last arrow...
    A dagger should change it. A dagger should do some damage and not only break trees.
     
  4. GloriousToast

    GloriousToast Haxor Donator

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    1,463
    i play archer a lot more now. When I play, I do my best when it comes at medium range and when the target is unaware or is busy with another. At shorter ranges, well, archers shouldn't really fight at short range unless they are backing up a team mate knight. At longer ranges I tend to miss by a few inches a lot and I then completely ruin my shot as the enemy would retreat/shield. What i believe archers have the most utility is in their ability to stall and to catch the unwary off guard.
     
    I3lue likes this.
  5. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

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    2,196
    Everyone is throwing this term around but what does it really mean? Isn't the point of the game that each class supports each other? Knights support archers by protecting them from enemy knights and projectiles, archers support by builders by keeping enemies at bay and sniping key targets like laddering builders and catapults. Each class supports the other, so why is archer the only "support class"? I think it's an idea people made up to preserve the status quo and make the idea of feature starved archers seem natural and good. It's not.

    You guys probably weren't around at the time but back in my day archer was the dominant class. The archer was the one doing the fancy shit, the one piling up the bodies and capping the flags, was the one that most skilled players played. Back when I played archer my favourite thing to do was use the (then excellent) arrow climbing to sprint over the enemy walls and solo steal the flag, like a bomb jumper knight would do today. This knight-centric view of the game only happened later in development and is neither necessary nor desirable. There's no reason that archers can't have nice things, and indeed they are getting very nice things come the new build.

    Also, archer takes a lot more skill than people give it credit for. I mean, KAG in general doesn't take that much skill but there's still more than many of you would suggest. Aiming is not simply "moving your cursor up and down appropriately", you have to shoot in the future. A good archer observes her enemy and learns their personality and behaviour as arrows travels so slowly a large part of being accurate is knowing where the enemy will be in the long seconds it takes for your arrow to reach them. Sometimes when I play hammerserker there's this really interesting situation that happens between myself and good enemy archers. I am familiar with the arrow drawing sound and know when they're going to shoot, so then I jump and they, shooting for where I would have been had i been running normally, just miss. However the good archers know that I know that they want to shoot where they think I'm going to be and will adjust for my jumping, unless I predict that and instead don't jump or feather the key to do a tiny little jump. But still even then good archers can read my mind and hit me a large percentage of the time.

    Archers also need to prioritize their targets. Back when I was teaching Carver archery I gave him a kind of reverse triage of target priority where you look at your enemies and their classes, positions, ping, personal skills, previous behaviour, and what they might be carrying in order to decide which one to fire at. Archers also need to know when to push and when to fall back, when it's time to save your life or spend it freely.

    I haven't been an archer player for almost a year now, but still the class isn't given enough credit. It deserves to be (and be regarded as) just as fun and valid a choice as the other classes and not just an "arrow nigger".
     
    Force, Cirom, blukey and 2 others like this.
  6. I3lue

    I3lue Drill Rusher
    1. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

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    176
    This is something everyone should read. What Contrary just said is lifeblood that keeps archers in this game. Also, what game is complete without an archer class?
     
  7. Conquerer

    Conquerer Shark Slayer

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    360
    When I play builder and go hammerserker as well, I usually do this. I've only been hit once when it was myself when I misjudged the timing, but apart from that, I haven't really seen any archers guess what I'll do during the 3 second period and actually aim accurately. When I play archer myself, I usually estimate 'you look at your enemies and their classes, positions, ping, personal skills, previous behaviour' to have the best shot I can. I also haven't seen any builders jump out of an arrow's path, except maybe Contrary one time on BC's CTF. It just seems like they want to be hit? ;-;

    I think I started KAG about build 350? 400 Maybe??(only joined the forums until a year of play x3), and I remember going archer all the time. Around my time I reckon archers started to die out. I was doing the fancy shit when I started, but after that everything got more advanced and builds changed... When I first started I fell into the trap bridges a lot...

    Separating team trap bridge's certainly wasn't around then, I think it only came in after 6 months after I joined. Reckon you can estimate when I started Contrary?
     
  8. it started b20, australia is just delayed

    ___________________________
    starcraft
     
    I3lue likes this.
  9. Conquerer

    Conquerer Shark Slayer

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    build 20? :O
     
  10. zollie20

    zollie20 Haxor

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    What I meant by support class is that they allow for the other classes (mostly builder) to actually end up with the flag (or large goals like that).
    I'm not even going to attempt to debate with you on the finer points of archery because I wasn't around to see how Archers used to be played, and you know far more than I do about them anyway, haha.
     
    blukey likes this.
  11. GloriousToast

    GloriousToast Haxor Donator

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    1,463
    build 20 was literally the most dumbest build ever. Archers had 5 arrows, shoot as fast as you can click and at the same time get arrows from tree. so
    :bow: + :tree: = literal machine gun bow.:spam:
    however I can't deny it is the greatest due it being the first build (that i know of) to be dled.
    @ contrary The reason I think archers are support classes, is because most people play them as far away shooters away from direct combat, where support is anything that isn't involved at direct combat/melee range.
    you had referred a good archer as a she, who do you have a basis in mind? because how i think is female archer = support therefore female = support (wrong of me to think that but still).
    In medieval media, the ones who always get all the attention were the knights or sword-users. King Arthur used a sword. the knights of the round table used swords. No where have I heard anything about a renowned character using a bow. This is why people are knight-centric, because of the popularity of knights.


    @13lue You misunderstand. it should be "what game is incomplete without melee and range?"
     
    I3lue likes this.
  12. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

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    I see you point there. Thats not my idea on how to play archer, thats just in my eyes the minimum to be 'devastating'.
    My idea on how to play archer is completely different. What is your definition of a 'devastating' archer just to make this less confusing for others. In my opinion and experience to be truly devastating is to have at least two archers that are timing there shots. This in my eyes truly wreaks havoc among the enemy.
    When I time my shots all I do is find an archer who is standing somewhere and shooting continuously and I just wait for him to fire then click and charge my arrow, thus when he shoots the second time my shot is right afterwards. Therefore this can take down the in this example a knight who is shielding.
    A normal archer would probably aim for the closest target, because you get the greatest force, there is a greater chance of hitting it, and that target is the greatest threat towards the archers safety.
    What im saying is you dont necasserily need to plan it beforehand. Just take some initiative.
    </br>--- merged: Apr 1, 2013 1:19 AM ---</br>
    Why give them a close range weapon and essentially make them more dangerous. Thats what knights are for...
    Archers usually give themselves lets say about 20 arrows. That lasts a while if they arent blatently wasting them.
    Archers can also climb trees and jump from tree to tree while shooting.
    Archers can also shoot arrows quickly but with low power.
    Its just not realistic within the game for archers to have a dagger.
    </br>--- merged: Apr 1, 2013 1:21 AM ---</br>
    What game within Kag's genre I think 13lue meant.
    EDIT: Whateve Genre Kag is. Since I do not know.
     
    zollie20 likes this.
  13. Hella

    Hella The Nightmare of Hair Global Moderator Donator Tester

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    1,655
    So, he meant "What game that is KAG is complete without archer?"
     
  14. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

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    Well I dont know exactly what Kag's genre is... So I mean whatever genre Kag is.
    </br>--- merged: Apr 1, 2013 2:17 AM ---</br>
    sry
     
  15. miniswrider

    miniswrider Bison Rider

    Messages:
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    medeival platformer....
     
  16. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    I wouldn't mind giving archers a little axe, so then archers would strike the tree with an axe, not strike it with nothing. You could even make it do less damage then half a heart. Why not make it do a third of a heart? This way they will have a close range attack, just not a powerful one.
     
  17. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

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    262
    Yeah but then they have to introduce changing weapons. And whats the point, if it cant damage much anyway. Why not just spam arrows for close range and at least get half a heart.
     
    zollie20 likes this.
  18. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    It would not be a separate weapon, all they would have to do is right click, like the builder. It would be a last resort, say if you ran out of arrows.
     
    Force likes this.
  19. Conquerer

    Conquerer Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    360
    make it do half a heart every second hit perhaps? make it slightly useless but actually a weapon.
    </br>--- merged: Apr 2, 2013 10:36 AM ---</br>
    pointless to spam arrows. you get slowed down by the drawing of the arrow, you waste arrows because you'll most likely miss all the time, not to mention it'd take 2 seconds for a knight to catch up to you and double slash you, given the first reason.

    (ugh, sorry for not editing my first post instead) ;-;
     
  20. Force

    Force Shark Slayer

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    262