Here is a list of current uses for archers in CTF: One time uses (i.e. a builder/knight can switch to archer for 5 seconds to do it then switch back): The rush at the start, where 1-2 archers are great at the back to pour water on the flood of enemy knights and builders, this increases the odds of your team taking mid significantly. Problems: After the rush, it's pretty useless. You don't get anything back as an archer from using water, so you end up using maybe 1 water arrow a minute, not that useful considering a good knight can kill all the enemy knights by himself anyway. Also, water is fucking annoying for the people getting wet, I don't think you should really be buffing water. Bomb arrows to go through 1-3 layers of enemy flagbase so you or your team mates can quickly take the flag. Problems: This is often called bullshit by most players (though I don't really agree considering the squishiness of archers). On top of this, a ballista does the same job except is way cheaper in the long run. Archers find it very hard to gain coins, so it is usually a builder switching to archer for 3 seconds just to do it once (Colar likes to do this, he sucks at archer but wins games all day by doing this). Shooting fire arrows on wood if your enemies are completely retarded. Problems: most people aren't retarded enough to build entire bases out of wood. Stone behind doors/platforms makes the maximum fire spread 2 (and usually it's only 0/1). They can move very fast so if the flag is open, you might switch from knight to archer to see if you can grab the flag before a builder closes the flag base. Problems: pretty rare you'd do this. Killing ballistas/catapults as well as using them as a coin-farm from a distance. Problems: it's pretty easy to put a shield up in front of them to stop this. Uses of a dedicated archer: Arrow ladders are great for helping knights get up a wall. Problems: you only need 1 archer to do this. A builder is far more useful for doing this. Climb over the enemy bases to switch into other classes to deal damage to the enemy base. Problems: You are literally using the class just so you can get to another place and use another class, that's hardly an archer specific thing. Archers don't have a lot of coins so switching to knight is pretty worthless unless you're good and can farm the enemy's spawning knights to get your keg. Glitching through platforms is very useful if you're trying to grab the enemy flag or get into an enemy's shop for some reason. Problems: It's a glitch, and Geti wants to remove it unfortunately. It was a lot better before when archers could glitch through 1 wide places, it made being an archer actually useful. Just being annoying af by shooting arrows constantly into knights. Problems: Not fun to play against. Not fun to play like as an archer. It is less useful than just being a knight so long as you are actually decent at knight. If I missed anything you think is important, please tell me! But I think this is the majority of uses of an archer in CTF. Unfortunately, I believe the best setup for CTF is 1 archer, 30% builders and 70% knights (random numbers, as the great Daskowl would've wanted). This doesn't include the rush where having 2 or maybe 3 archers is useful to make sure you take mid, but considering 99% of the game isn't the rush, this probably doesn't count. Anyway, this thread is about brainstorming ways to make archers more useful, and here is what I can think of: Add back the glitching through 1-wide spots. I don't get why this was removed, it was one of the better glitches. Heart arrows! Arrows that work similar to water but hit team mates, not enemies, and heal anyone in the splash radius by one heart. Every time you heal someone, you get +5 coins or whatever. Make it so water arrows give coins when you hit someone, otherwise there is no point in using them outside of a rush unless you're good enough to hit them consistently and hit enough arrows to keep purchasing them. Although I do think you should nerf water arrows since they're annoying af when you're hit by them. Make the stun time last as long as a water bomb and maybe decrease stun radius? Maybe increase cost. Make it so that adding a stone backwall behind platforms, doors and shops does not stop it burning. This is really stupid tbh. It also makes it so archer nests are pretty OP and that can be very annoying for aggressive archers who keep getting shot by archer nesting plebs (who don't do anything for their team really, they are just annoying). Make it so fire arrows do a lot more damage to ballistas and catapults. Make it so bomb arrows are cheaper but do less damage. This would make it so there is no real nerf to bomb arrows but would mean you'd have to play as an archer all the time if you want to keep applying pressure. Increase the amount of coins you get per hit / kill as an archer so you can actually buy special ammo (currently you get coins way faster as a knight or builder). Thoughts?