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Archers aren't very useful in CTF - Ideas to make them more useful? (or do you disagree?)

Discussion in 'Classes & Mechanics' started by Blue_Tiger, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    I just remembered another thing, which probably counters my argument against Toffie but oh well. If a knight shields upwards, it is impossible to stomp them as an archer. If you get a 1-heart stomp against the shield, it does nothing. If you get a 2-heart stomp against the shield, it makes it so the knight cannot hold their shield up anymore for about a second. But that doesn't stop them immediately slashing you after.

    Maybe make a 2-heart stomp can stun a shielding knight?
    jimmyzoudcba and Osmal like this.
  2. neil58

    neil58 Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Frankly, I'm pretty sure there's no importance of having more than one or even archers in KAG. Knights and builders are essential to winning the game and you really can't win without them. Having no archers actually gives you an advantage over the other team and was shown in competitive clans playing w/ 4 knights and a builder (unless the archer was good enough where they function as a knight).
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  3. AlmightyHelixFossil

    AlmightyHelixFossil Catapult Fodder

    If heart arrows gave coins you could have a large team deliberately each spike themselves once or twice then group up by tent to have a heart arrow heal them all for free coins, the cost of heart arrow would either be too high to fix this or it would burn through coins due to not producing any as output.
  4. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Just make it so that you can only get X coins per healing hit, doesn't matter how many you heal.

    E: Also, you realise builders can already generate coins by spamming platforms, right? At least doing that would take teamwork :P.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  5. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

    I'm sorry but you are wrong on this, please do not mention again, nobody does that...
    epsilon, Magmus and Coroz like this.
  6. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Arrow stuns. They're indeed hard to pull off, but "impossible" doesn't mean "hard to pull off". If you get a triple shot off, a 2h stomp becomes a kill on top of the arrow damage.

    kodysch and Psiklaw like this.
  7. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    good luck grappling and shooting a full shot at the same time.
  8. Coroz

    Coroz B R B Donator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    triple shot +half shot is more effective in horizontal battles against knights , but triple +stomp is realy nice in vertical battles at towers against knights. archers can insta kill players its funny how knights react when it happens. most of times they capslock - hacks :D
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2016 ---
    i blame the maps. archers can be the best or the worst class to pick depending on the maps.
    Magmus likes this.
  9. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Glitching through 1 block gaps to get the flag was retaded and buggy. Pls do not add back shitty bugs on purpose.

    "make water arrows gibe u coins, water not usefull enough" now here you got really fucking retarded. You spam water at knights to annoy them already by giving you coins for it would make you spam it even more. Water arrows are usefull in every team fight to help out your knights, stop knights from throwing bombs, bombjumping and throwing kegs. How is that not usefull? In pub matches it's easy to get enough coins to have some waterarrows every respawn and in cw's/capitans your team should buy you them coz thats what teamwork is.

    I agree on fire arrows making more dmg to siege but making them always burn platforms as well as if they were on wood backwall would be too powerfull since every tower is made mostly with plats on front. People would just stop making towers as they do now and would start using lots of stone. Making them more powerful against wooden doors isn't that bad since it would help fighting rats digging longass tunnel across the map.

    Making bomb arrows cheaper is another shit idea. They aren't used to kill anyway so what's the point of making their damage smaller? You said it yourself that they are used by stacking them and shooting all at once at flag defense/tower which is really powerfull and hard to counter since it's accurate and can do huge damages to building. By making them cheaper you would just increase that bombarrow spam. Imo if you wan't to buff bomb arrows make them do more aoe damage so they can be more usefull in team fights.

    Go back to being shitty faggot spammer on ctf Malt. Plox
    More like:
    Archers: Archers most skillful class how dare u play shitty knight taht require no skill *dies by slash*
    Builder: I'm going to murder you all with my fat ass, pickaxe, and spikes and then block your whole base buildknight shop and blow shit up. *wins*
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  10. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    I said nerf water arrows so they don't stun for the entire duration, allowing the stunee to escape if used incorrectly. If you have to spend 10 coins per water arrow and get 5 back, I think that's fair.

    What's wrong with changing the meta? Those platform spammed up towers are stupid anyway.

    As for bomb arrows, I don't want a buff, nor do I want a nerf. I just want it so that you have to be consistently playing archer to effectively use them, as opposed to just being knight/builder for 20 minutes, switch to archer for 30 seconds, destroy enemy tower, go back to being builder/knight. If they are cheaper but weaker, you will have to stay archer more consistently for them to make dents in towers and shit since you won't able to cram 10 bomb arrows in your inventory.
  11. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Stun on water arrows would need to be really short to make it not possible to spam one player and keep him stunned. Also what do you mean with making them do less damage? Less damage to players or buildings?
    Changing the meta that way would buff offensive builders/rats a lot coz it would be a lot easier to block enterences and dig into stone/climb over
  12. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    No it wouldn't. It's barely possible now.

    Less damage to buildings of course.

    You can't burn stone doors. Not sure how it would buff rats, lol. It would buff offensive builders maybe, but isn't that a good thing? If you can more easily scale a tower, you're less likely to just rat for half an hour.
    franek123 likes this.
  13. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Where will you get the hearts? you dont get hearts for teamkills and itd be more cost effective to blockspam.
    Fire arrows should minorly damage wooden blocks(so they cant be easily replaced to stone).

    If you nerfed the ammount of damage done to structure then a coin reduction wouldnt really be a buff(or you could just mess up archer inventory so they cant carry 5 of dem bitches).

    That's not very nice. I identify as a shitty faggot spammer and do not it being used as an insult :\.
    enderzilla747 likes this.
  14. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Ballista Bolt Thrower

    ctf needs mat_iron to add a third layer of protection to the buildings just like territory ocntrol
  15. enderzilla747

    enderzilla747 Arsonist Tester

    RIP bomb arrows?
  16. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester


    Iron would just be a more resistant but harder to obtain version of stone and would do nothing for the game except create stalemates. And when was the last time you saw a castle made of iron?

    If there were a reason for a new resource I'd be all for it, since KAG having only 3 resources is a bit shit, but there isn't.
  17. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    but we all need sand resources :L
  18. jimmyzoudcba

    jimmyzoudcba Bison Rider Tester

    I agree with you malt in some parts (basically the buffing in general) but I really think archer is more of a high skill = high impact thing. Like I've seen Coroz and Illu (or someone) together and the two archers alongwith a few mediocre knights and builders can rek. But I don't know how to make archer higher impact without making pros pubstompers; like right now if you're bad you're a waste for your team and if you're good you can actually do quite a lot like @neil58 mentioned.

    Let's see where this thread goes! Good luck malt XD
  19. RedOTheWisp

    RedOTheWisp Shark Slayer Official Server Admin

    As a follow up to this, I have noticed in my watching of archers, that there is not often a middle ground of skill, most archers are either an asset or a burden; unfortunately the former is far less common.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    jimmyzoudcba likes this.
  20. KArth

    KArth Ballista Bolt Thrower

    There seems to be a massive amount of threads on this, so I will quickly share my opinion of this.

    Archers ARE incredibly useful in CTF, but as stated above, only a really experienced archer can be a pain in the backside, and I usually swap between archer and knight depending on how many coins I have and on the situation.

    The stomping is really, really retarded right now, although I think it is pretty balanced considering Archer can be the most powerful class in the game, and could smash an experience knight in a 1v1, using that tri-shot.

    Firearrows suck in experience matches! Only useful against other archers or just spamming it into that wave of knights.

    Bombarrows I think should stay where they are at the moment, but make them do less damage to shielding knights.

    1 block archer spaces was so much fun! remember in classic you could make those 'people' cannon using blocks shaped like this?


    Trampoline cannons were the best aswell, although I do agree with them being removed. (I will still never forget those times I rest those swag cannons with 1 bomb arrow XD.

    Catapulting archer should be buffed greatly, and sideways stomp should also be added (if you could stomp people going upwards, that would be OP)

    My quick opinion isn't so quick anymore...
    8x likes this.