Archers or Ninjas

I might (probably) have subconsciously just stole this idea due to not reading the thread properly, but could stab not have a slash like windup? Less spam and you can still have a fairly high backstab damage as a result (less than 3 hearts still...), and then just have a charged stab cause slightly more frontal damage, considering it's not really much in the first place then that wouldn't be too overpowering.

 

I like arbitrary and random determination of important game mechanics

 

not true.
A single archer vs a group of knights can't win with his dagger.
he can jump over, and nearly kill (three out of four hearts) one enemy, but the others will notice his plan, and just move their shields close together, so that the archer cannot backstab.
then they rape him.

It only works if a knight is already fighting.
Then the enemy will focus on that knight, and the archer can backstab the enemy.
(either take a three-heart-hit from the archer, or three one-heart-hits from the knight)
And even then most knights will be able to defend themselves properly.

The dagger is not what's the problem.
The fact that knights don't get any backstab bonus at all, is.

 

Just type !bot and get a Henry, they are impervious to archers.

[18:17] <05@Geti> henry is better than 100% of pub knights at dealing with archers
[18:17] <05@Geti> he just
[18:17] <05@Geti> shields
[18:17] <05@Geti> and then
[18:17] <05@Geti> gives
[18:17] <05@Geti> no fucks
[18:17] <05@Geti> if you go full shank on him
[18:18] <06@rayne`> Geti: he also has every solution programmed into him already ;;
[18:18] <05@Geti> he goes nuts and blitzes you

 

Gosh, all this whining about archers being op is so lame.
Yeah, lets nerf them, and whole gameplay for the archer would be same as in classic: sit on a tower, shoot 45 degree shots, trying to get a hit, or get closer, and catch bomb.

As all-time archer player, i think, that movement speed while charging shot should be nerfed, so arrows spam on the run would be less powerfull, and maybe 2 hearts for backstab. Or, make it charged too. Like knight jab. THat would deal with backstab spam, i think.

Or, you can get stunned for a second, if backstab lands into a shield

Anyway, didnt have a chance to spam backstabs, to judge fairly, but everytime i get into fight, i get bombed\jabbed\shot (by other archer) in 2-3 secs.

The game has classic (not about Kag-classic, simply classic) rock\paper\scissors system. Knight beats Archer, Archer beats worker, worker beats knight (i mean of forts and machinery, catas, ships, etc).
And you can notice it quite well: Knight rapes archer in cc, blocks arrows. Archer can scale defences and and factories, made by worker. Worker makes defences, which blocks advance of knights. But now, every class has a chance to deal with its counter: knights got tons of explosives, to bring down forts. Archers get backstab, to catch on a knight in melee. builders get some qutie effective defences, like auto-bow, and so on.

So stop whining. i think, all whining about archers=op are made by noob knights, who cant clearly understand what to do.

 

maybe they should add that "top of head" =/= back.
It's annoying to be backstabbed when the stab doesn't reach your back >:(

 

For now you can sometimes backstab enemy, when you are close enough, but facing away from them. Occurs when ping is laggy.

That is why everyone says, that its OP.
But when knight hits you, when you are 2-3 blocks away, even after he dashed with slash - NOO, ITS OKAY, L2P NOOB, SILLY ARCHERS CANNOT INTO CLOSE COMBAT POK POK POK

 

Kuja, you're saying "knights noobz l2p", while being "all-time archer"
I'm knight AND archer (in Classic) and i find Classic perfectly balanced. You're blaming knights for their lack of skill or something ? If you're "sitting on tower, shooting 45 degree shoots all time" in Classic I can gladly say that you're noob. I can defeat many knights in 1v1 while being archer or archers when I'm knight and I find both classes fun to play :)

 

whoa, easy there. About 45 degree tower shooting was an irony, i can evade 2-3 knights for hours, by dodging on trees in classic, eventually killing most of them. Still, its when they are being noobs, good knights always find way to block and knock me off trees pretty fast.
So, yeah. Im blaming knights for a lack of skill.
Still, played KAGbeta for 4-6 hours yesterday - all talk about backstab being OP is stupid. ONe hit into the shield, and next second you are pieces of meat. And we are not even talking about 2-3 knights vs 1 archer. Archer can pwn workers, he has to, yeah, but knights yelling about backstab op... pffft.

 

I completely agree with that first paragraph. Usually, I can evade Knights of lower skill without dying unless I make a silly mistake.. until a Knight with good skill logs on, that is. A good skill Knight KNOWS when to attack and block an archer, and (probably more importantly!), when to BLOCK.

For a start, the backstab was pretty overpowered in earlier builds (iirc, stabbing a shield did NOT stun in the earlier builds) - it has been pretty severely nerfed recently, getting closer to balance, but not quite yet. Archers are still a fair bit OP compared to the other classes, I still think the backstab needs 1 heart knocked off it's damage, but that's just my opinion. The recent update which slowed down Archers who are charging their bow was pretty nice too, helping balance the game a bit.

 

I find that now in the latest builds (Either 752-753) when they balanced the archers and knights everything is okay. The only issue I have with backstab is the fact it can feel random on the receiving end...even more so when I comes to lag!
It is probably due to the fact that almost every other attack in the game is sorta expected, jabs are something knights kinda just do when near someone without a slash ready, slashes have a nice visual cue and in some ways an audio one too, arrows you can expect when you see an archer's bow out, and being pickaxed is the only way a builder can defend themselves outside of a tower! Meanwhile the backstab can just come out of nowhere and kill you!
But to make it clear I'm not saying I hate the backstab, just giving a reason people might get actually upset about it because they aren't used to it!

Also, BEFORE this balancing update the issue of archers being overpowered was a thing! The difference between then and now is anyone could pick up the class and murder even someone who was good with the knight, heck one game the entire other team (3 people) went archer and started killing my team, and they were all kinda new to it, and I simply changed to archer and singlehandedly won the game. The class used to be pretty hard to fight against, and was pretty much impossible to fight with someone who knew what they were doing.

Also 1 archer shouldn't be able to fight 2-3 knights unless a safe distance away or being really good at it, if any ol' archer could do that (and they used to) there would be a balancing problem!

Close combat: Knight beats Archer, Archer AND knight beats worker.
Class's main use: Knights push and try to get into positions close enough to kill things. Archers avoid getting too close and fire arrows from a range (the stabbing can be a sorta last resort/close call getaway). Builders stay safe and construct forts and machines to aid and make the lives of the archers and knights easier!

Edit: I also agree with Cirom!

 

I don't think this thread is relevant anymore because archers got a rather major nerf, as stabbing a shield now stuns you 5ever and you lose speed while charging an arrow. They're not annoying now but can still stand their own ground, which is the perfect middle route imo. Of course 8 archers stacking is still horrendous as fuck, but that's just the way sidescroller archers are doomed to be.

 

I never get these things, so it's probably your own problem.
I also never get told L2P Noob, or see anyone gettting told, so maybe it's true? (or maybe I'm not paying attention)

Maybe you should check the ping before joining?

 

Ping is always good. Just random sheit.