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Archers Regenerating Arrows

Discussion in 'Balance' started by J-man2003, May 16, 2015.

?

Do you think this should be added?

Poll closed May 16, 2016.
  1. Yes, definitly

    20.7%
  2. No, not at all

    48.3%
  3. Maybe

    13.8%
  4. I would like something added to balance archers, but not this

    17.2%
  1. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    Simple enough.

    Archers, instead of having arrows in their shop, would slowly regenerate arrows if they have less than the max (30) by, every few seconds or so, getting 1 arrow. This idea still prevents arrow spam and adds an extra slot in the archer's inventory and their shop.

    Why you ask? Because, does it make sense to have to go back to a shop and use gold to get more ammo for your primary weapon? No, and why? Because imagine doing a lot of damage to the enemy but never getting gold because you're doing it from a long range of distance, then you run out of arrows. Is that fair to the archer? No, and neither is having to buy precious gold for it, why should you have to use gold on something that's for your primary while you should be using it for other, more useful items?

    These are the conclusions I've made thinking about this, and I truly think that this idea should be added, or, at the very least, something similar.

    @Geti @MM

     
  2. LegendBeta

    LegendBeta Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    137
    Why not have free 30 arrows at archer shops?
    Like the spawn, so builders would set up "archer supplys" up on the front lines?
     
  3. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    812
    I don't think he knew that you can get resupply from spawn tent, but this idea makes a lot more sense. Same with builder. Switching classes to achieve the same effect is tedious and dumb.
     
  4. LegendBeta

    LegendBeta Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    137
    I think J-man knows about that, he is a well known/experienced player, aside from that I see his point.
    When you are camping far from the tent (lelel just kidding) sometimes you run out of arrows.

    He states that this should not be the case considering that arrows are an archers primary weapon, I agree.
    Instead of making archers AFK for 5 min to get 30 arrows again they should just be able to grab 30 from an archer shop.

    Just a huge stab in the dark, maybe.. have the tunnels give you res/arrows :ehh: ??
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  5. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    That's what I don't want to be in the game, archers shouldn't have to rely on builders, knights don't have to, but archers do no matter what.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2015, Original Post Date: May 16, 2015 ---
    Even with the resupply thing (which I didn't know about beforehand, I never play archer) it still isn't fair to archers if they have to go back to their base or even just a forward operating base, this idea is supporting archers being in battle field for longer, like knights, even if it is just staying on the sidelines a little, it would still be better than having to go back to base

    EDIT: Thanks for seeing my logic in this.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2015 ---
    Crap I'm well known?

    As said I would like for archers to not have to rely on builders for their primary, that doesn't make sense either.
     
  6. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    400
    And why would that be? I have met numerous mechanics-wise issues in KAG yet failed to run out of arrows more than a few times in a few years. If you do run out of ammo, that means you're just a very bad, campy archer. As Blue_Tiger said, if there are archers in game (which is pretty much always), there's plenty of arrows lying around, so much in fact that devs limited the auto pickup to 60.
    It's pretty balanced, actually. If "you're doing it from a long range", then that means you're safe behind a platform or whatever your kind builder has built for you. That way, your risk of dying and thus losing earned coins is way lower than that of a knight on the front, despite having twice less health. The necessity of buing arrows is what I find to be just untrue, as I said, go and pick some from the battlefield, and if you see none, just press your fucking E and enter a whole new world of looting backpacks.
    Of course it's true that the archer class isn't much of a money maker when you aren't a pro, but it's not that bad, it's not like you're "never getting gold". I as a pretty average player can get a strong positive income and that's with buying even special arrows.
    No. Summarizing, the problem you're describing doesn't exist for most players who didn't quit KAG after a day.
    Surely, this will help your suggestions get noticed, and maybe even implemented, right?
     
  7. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    272
    Use RMB to retrieve arrows.
     
    SirDangalang and Yagger like this.
  8. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    644
    even when i'm maining archer in a match, and i /do/ run out of arrows (which is very little due to me picking up scraps from the field), it's usually my fault that i've let them get that low without replenishing.
    regenning arrows just makes the archer class an even easier choice, instead of you having to rely on carefully maintaining your shots and finding arrows.
    if you camp and spam, get more arrows to adapt. if you're up close and personal, you'll probably have a decent amount of arrows from drops and scraps on the field.
     
    Dargona1018 and Fernegulus like this.
  9. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    Hmm, well, you made some good points, but the fact is, knights don't have to carefully aim their slashes, so why should archers? Arrows are no different than a knight's blade, in terms of balancing. And to prevent spamming is why the 4 seconds = 1 arrow in return idea would work, you would still easily run out of arrows if you spammed them, just not as quickly and nor would you have to buy something from a store for your primary weapon. Having to buy ammo for your bow is the equivalent of having to pay coins for your primary weapon. All this idea is suggesting is to make A) Make arrows not have to be paid for, and B) Make it to where archers don't have to go to an archer shop (a.k.a. rely on builders) for arrows. In which, those both are very unbalanced. There is nothing wrong with camping back at base and sniping people, and I would even say there is nothing wrong with arrow spam, because most shots miss and are easily dodged, either way this idea would prevent both from happening because of having to wait for a resupply of arrows from your own person.

    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2015, Original Post Date: May 18, 2015 ---
    This idea of mine would prevent 1. arrows taking up field space 2. lag from arrows 3. the space arrows take up in an archer's inventory (which is unbalanced in of itself)

    I perfectly well know you can do that, but it seems to me at least, extremely unbalanced and stupid.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2015 ---
    I don't get the point of this post.
     
    blobjim likes this.
  10. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,699
    Fuzzle's talking about picking up fired arrows from the ground.

    This (hard regen) is very unlikely to happen in vanilla, however you'll be able to resupply without switching class at the matching shop in the next build, which should allow for more use of forward bases by casual archers.

    Re: knights dont have to aim - yes they do. Try clicking the top of the screen all day and see how you fare.

    Re: nothing wrong with arrow spam - we see things differently I guess.
     
  11. toffie0

    toffie0 is sweeter than you <3 Global Moderator Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    342
    Maybe instead bring the old days back where you could harvest arrows from trees? Have this done with space maybe? (Pretty sure archers have nothing done with space bar)

    This would let you be able to get arrows nearly anywhere on the map that has trees without having to go to a archer shop for arrows or the tent for a re-supply.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  12. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    Geti's solution is perfect to me, archer shops will resupply archers, like the tent.
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  13. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester

    Messages:
    889
    At least fix the pickup order, stacks of arrows everywhere, and if I want to pick something up, I have to go through about 5 piles of arrows first.
     
    SirDangalang, heX_ and Fernegulus like this.
  14. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    272
    Take a look at this, maybe.
     
    SirDangalang and Fernegulus like this.
  15. heX_

    heX_ Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    207
    Yeah, this is my main gripe with arrows. Apart from that it seems only natural to resupply at archer shop. Nobody should ever have to pay for their primary (and only) weapon.
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  16. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    I really want C+LMB to be a thing...
     
    SirDangalang and J-man2003 like this.
  17. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,699
    Tell Fuzzle to get his act together sending through the files then :^)
     
  18. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    Still relies on builders, which (at least to me) is very unbalanced in terms of having a comparison of archer and knight in terms of primary weapon usage.

    Still better than just saying you can pick up arrows on the battle ground at any times... which is only true on the populated servers, nowhere else.
     
  19. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester

    Messages:
    889
    How does it rely on builders?
     
  20. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    644
    how do you even find it unbalanced it anyway ? is it unfair in chivalry when I get killed by a knight because I run out of arrows and he has a sword? you have the ability to plink damage from afar, which in turn is balanced by having a set amount of ammo. knights have no ammo counter but are always up close and personal (except for BOUGHT bombs). ammo from forward shops, pickups, and bought stacks should suffice instead of magically regenerating arrows.
     
    watermelon200 and Dargona1018 like this.

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