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B847 - Shark noms, Balance Tweaks, Map Changes, Installers and More!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DevBlogger, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Digger101

    Digger101 Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    353
    Im not sure, I dont really use sliding to my combat or travelling towards place A to B :p
    But I will test it though.
     
  2. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    So just got off from playing a round of TDM, 1v1 with normal ping as always (100 at normal, 233 at very max, 33 at random wonderful times) and the other player had a lower ping as me...dang this lag is unbearable, and it was on the Official KAG TDM server too! I normally get tiny little teleports from time to time, not a bunch of 10+ block teleports with lots of smaller teleports between, heck once when I changed class I saw my previous self walk the direction I had been holding down before switching class it was so bad!

    I think this is the first time an update has made my game pretty much unplayable... :/ Hope it doesn't take you guys too much work to figure it out!
     
  3. DrZaloski

    DrZaloski Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    225
    Lag for me has been very finicky. Some servers I get ping banned in a manner of minutes, some others I have absolutely no problem. Weird.

    Anyway, interested in the changes to archer. Although I do think that archers should be more mobile, I'd be okay if they changed into less of a ranged-combat class and more into an utilities class. With catapults, ballistas, mounted bows, and now fast sliding knights, the medium-ranged archer is less and less helpful in combat, to the point where knights are almost always preferable. Although, archers have become increasingly more utility-based, with their various arrows. Their monopoly on fire and sticky bomb arrows is pretty much the only thing giving them a substantial role, with water arrows being basically water bombs with some damage and more precise aim. I'd think it would be cool if archers got more of an utility role.

    As for flaming logs, unless they explode upon contact, there's not really any reason to have them, because flaming arrows are cheaper and more accurate. Not to mention setting the log on fire then placing it on the catapult is inconvenient and a serious fire hazard.

    Also, I just have to say that the camera gets all messed up when you're in a crate inside a boat's storage. Don't ask.
     
  4. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    I still find the combat capability for the archer to still be pretty extant, but the general problem is a one heart damage average on full draw and in practice, no ability to stun shielded knights; other than that, the other issue been discussed: mobility and general uselessness in melee, and close range of knights, and builders.

    Anyways, the range of an archer's shot is easily rivaled by siege weapons, and even thrown bombs at times.

    This doesn't stop the archer from having a massive damage potential, either by peppering people with arrows whilst they are distracted; from the structure damage/dousing they can cause with their special ammo, or the fact that they can climb over walls and possibly sitting on a hall, but they are pretty much a third wheel to more available and powerful things, like armed knights, siege weapons, rushing builders and trampolines.

    It would be coming off lightly, if I were to be interested, or exited by the prospect of making them better in some way. But I'm not sure they should be entirely pushed into the realm of utility, since you have structures, workshops, and builders for that.
    [I don't know, maybe figuring out how to hit people with normal arrows spoiled me a bit, since every heart matters for a knight since it means the difference between a bomb and death, or a jab and death]
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Contrary like this.
  5. Brilly

    Brilly Bison Rider

    Messages:
    222
    I'm getting a glitch where if an archer shoots an arrow at me fully charged while I'm shield sliding, the shield just disappears and there is no stun animation.

    Furthermore, the shield does not reactivate even if you are holding down right click, and you must release the right click button and click it again to shield.

    The archer can shoot a second arrow before you can reactivate your shield.

    This is a bit of an ergonomic problem as well.
     
  6. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    @Brilly are you sure it is an archer and not a mounted bow causing this? The shield knockdown is intended including having to repress the button, but is unintuitive to say the least. It should only happen from arrows from the mounted bow, however.

    We're aware that the mounted bow is basically stalemate cancer and will deal with that once we've got the next build tested and released
     
  7. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    148
    I'm sure you've heard this before but- no sound when mining stone.
    Apart from that, sliding is fun but also... weird. I dunno, it's kinda an unnatural thing for me in KAG. I guess I just need to relearn ;)
    Alpha trained me so well to jump absolutely everywhere...
    I can see it becoming a very cool feature of knight combat. When everyone gets pro we would be slashin' and slidin' all over the place. Dodging and weaving.
    Alpha is so different now going back. Beta lets you be free and slick in movement.

    Points on current Build:
    • I reckon water bombs could be cut from the knights arsenal seeing as almost no-one uses them and they 'clog' up the acquiring of normal bombs to a degree. Besides I'm nub and constantly stun me-self.
    • As an archer only weapon they have potential, especially if you add half heart damage to un-shielding opponents. (Shielding stops damage, not stun)
    • Water ammo factories could be cut and replaced by an 'archer ammo' workshop which provides bomb fire and water arrows.
    • Military supplies could still exist as is. Not sure about ballista explosive tips though. Maybe in demolition workshop?
    Anyway that's my current thoughts on KAG. Probably should put this in suggestions but ah well. Once I started ranting I couldn't stop :)
     
  8. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    Clay, as far as I can toss it, Sliding is more or less Alpha's Constant Gliding, but instead of carefully choosing your jumping, and shield gliding, you just hold jump and constantly shield bash the floor.

    I don't know if it is faster to jump over corners, but corners can interrupt a slide.

    Anyways, flanking, or perpendicular arrows are kind of weird when it comes to hitting, and being blocked by shields.
    It seems that you can only get a person when they are either shielding in the opposite direction, or they aren't gliding.
     
    Iamaclay likes this.
  9. Brilly

    Brilly Bison Rider

    Messages:
    222

    I could have swore it was an archer and that it only happens while shield sliding down a hill towards an archer firing a full strength arrow at the shield.


    Could you perhaps make it that when this event occurs, rather than what happens right now, instead the knight trips, but continues to slide, and has a second of vulnerability or something.



    As for the mounted bow, I feel that the main problem with it is its redundancy with the archer. It would be better off with some sort of toggle switch that allows it to either shoot a full strength arrow very far away slowly (AKA further than an archer, but at a slower pace) or multiple low powered arrows at close ranges. If the long range was instant kill and the short range was like quarter heart damage, it would provide incentive to charge, and end stalemates.
     
  10. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    You can still shoot arrows at close range with the super powered shots, if anything, you are encouraging people to spam more mounted bows.

    With the super power shot, you are guaranteed a kill or a stun, which is more or less a death sentence for most anyone.
    With the fast shot, I don't know, it's a complete waste, even archers do more damage on minimum draw.
    [That being said, you'd have to have the mounted bow shoot at some ridiculously slow speed or something to fix the issue with super shots]

    Pretty much in either case, you make the mounted bow a larger issue for everyone, since they have increased range, and power, and you need less ammo to do more, and simply need to spam them even more to get a good volley.
    [I'm reminded of sky bridging with catapults, and ballistae at this point]
    At least, as it is now- with one setting, now you can reasonably block the arrows as each class, and it can't kill people further than maybe half of the between-hall area.
    [arrow cancellation or abuse of superior range and special ammo; each hit isn't a guaranteed stun, in fact they seem very uncommon; and directional platforms, or doors]
     
  11. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Fyi, mounted bow as you know it (i.e. cancer machine of death) is prolly going to go byebye in the near future.
     
  12. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    the catapult is pretty cancerous, but hey, at least you can drive it off cliffs.
     
  13. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    I've always thought the mounted bow should just be a mini ballista, firing a single semi-powerful bolt. It would not be there to lay waste to armies like it does now. This way builders and knight would still have a viable defensive ranged weapon, which would depend on skill and accuracy rather then how many arrows you can spit in the enemies general direction.
     
  14. LostPix

    LostPix Base Burner

    Messages:
    574

    It could work nicely, perhaps be even more fun if corpses instead of exploding on impact would pin to walls and such, pinning few knights with satisfaction.
     
    Guitarman likes this.
  15. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    I guess give them their own ammo, it gets harder to keep them completely stocked, indefinitely, and we have an excuse to call them Scorpio [More or less shoots Javelines], or Polybolos [Repeating Big Arrow Shooty Thing].
    Considerably, it would probably require new art assets, or you could reskin arrows to look more like the ballista's warheads.

    Thanks to you guys, I now want to fling arrows out of a catapult.
    And, giving the hypothetical mounted bow more ammo types...
     
  16. NKking

    NKking KAG Escadrille Donator
    1. PumpkinStars - [Pk#] - Inactive

    Messages:
    222
    I thing mounted bows are not that bad, they just need some fixing.
    Example:
    Make it so that arrows have more curved trajectory and not almost a straight line.
    Make it not rechargeable it will give time for players to take over the tower it was standing on.
    Make it so it has less HP.

    I am a type of player who just ignoring all enemy defences x2/x3 bomb jumps to the enemy main base puts a mine in front of the door and waits for a noob (noob-new player who can improve, not an idiot) to open the door and allow me to enter.
    The only thing that stops me is an expert player which there are only like 6 people who regularly plays the game or a mounted bow.
    Don't look at mounted bow as a game breaker.
    In Multiplayer environment there are always noobs and experts.
    Both types want to enjoy the game, so they are using their real life skills to produce a certain amount of in game power.
    Ok. Lets take X for power and Y for skill and lets say that Y produces X
    Now that we know that
    X=power
    Y=skill
    Y produces X
    In real life noobs have less Y therefore they produce less X in the game
    In real life experts have more y therefor they produce more X in game
    Now, lets say that there are 2 objects. Object A (OA) and Object B (OB)
    If a player starts to use OA it will give him more X, but player wont need to have a lot of Y
    to use that object. OA is not the most powerful object in game but its power is enough to allow noobs compete with expert players at even if they are only defending
    But you can say; ohh, but experts can start using that object. well no, because there is OB. OB gives players a lot of X but it requires a lot of Y to produce that X, like Bombjumps or mines, or water bottles. you cant just throw them you must study them and practice with them a lot. It will keep expert players playing because it is still interesting and challenging to use OB and when player succeed at using them it is even more enjoyable.

    I tried to explain, if you want to know more just Google First Order Optimal Strategy (FOOS)
    Also that video explains it well Mounted bow must stay and be nerfed. I don't want it to stay because it will help me to take over enemy halls and my cruel enemy will be removed , but for new players it should stay especially when KAG will be released on stem(Hue wave of noobs.
     
  17. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    148
    I acid-induced-tripped almost 3.14 times when reading that post...

    Anyway some good points. Nerfing is only required when players actually start abusing said item.
    With mounted have a 5 arrow volley then 3 second recharge or something. That way it an be used for defense but is not a death machine.
     
  18. NKking

    NKking KAG Escadrille Donator
    1. PumpkinStars - [Pk#] - Inactive

    Messages:
    222
    I don't care how they are going to nerf it.just don't remove it. Also if they are going to nerf it will make people like me and bombjumpers in general more powerfull
    So before nefing something think about how every other object and mechanic will evolve
     
  19. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    So pretty much the Mounted Bow as it is, is a very good hard counter for most things, from builders to archers to knights.
    It's pretty hard to counter because it has an immense blanket and area denial that pretty much shuts everyone down, and uses pretty bountiful ammo, and in maps that are shallow, it's pretty much unavoidable, excluding sky bridging, or shield rushing.

    As it stands, we are pretty much suggesting a cheaper, and more available version of a ballista to be put in its place.
    Though still immobile, and has a draw, the powerful bolts it should fire should suffice, and make it possibly a training tool to be an archer.

    I don't much care for it, especially since it trains my counter fire, and the fact that I learned that bombs can block arrows... I've died serveral times because someone just so happens to have thrown a bomb that catches my arrow before rolling to a rest at my feet.
    At the end of the day, the issue circles back to counter mining, water, and sky bridges.
    I can handle people throwing sharks, and bomb jumping, but not that.
     
  20. NKking

    NKking KAG Escadrille Donator
    1. PumpkinStars - [Pk#] - Inactive

    Messages:
    222
    Again it should be nerfed but devs must put a lot of thought into that nerf.