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Better Flames

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Gofio, Sep 3, 2015.

Mods: Rainbows
  1. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Flames, as they are now, are incredibly crappy.
    You can easily burn down a whole tower in seconds, after which it is rebuilt in less than a minute.
    That's not a bad thing, but it certainly could be a lot more interesting.

    What if flames were more resilient?

    Currently, an archer ingites one or two blocks, and the fire soon spreads to all wooden blocks in the area.
    By then the first few blocks have already been burned down, and not much later the whole thing collapses.
    Builders and knights rush in, trying to rebuild or take over the remains, and the battle continues.

    Not bad, right?
    Wrong.
    Frontline towers are usually made with lots of wood, so a single fire arrow deals more damage than a keg.

    I'll explain the changes I have in mind, and why they're an improvement.
    -Make fire deal less damage to blocks.
    -Don't let builders extinguish fire by replacing the wood with stone. If it starts burning, you'll need water.
    -Increase the initial amount of fire, but slow down the spreading. (fire arrows ignite an area, rather than a single block)

    You now have fire that
    -is a hazard to both the structure and the players, because it lasts longer. (less damage to blocks means that the flames stay take more time to dissapear)
    -can actually be extinguished with water buckets, because it doesn't spread as fast.
    -will make builders plan ahead, and make several exits instead of just one set of ground doors.
    -has to be used wisely: a fire arrow in the wrong place can easily be extinguished, or even slow down your own team.

    With this, when an archer ignites an area (about five or six blocks), builders have to make a path around it first, to allow their knights to keep fighting. Meanwhile, someone can get water arrows or buckets, and a few builders reinforce the area around the source, using stone, or by destroying it. (fire still can't jump blocks)
    If the archer managed to ignite an area that wasn't protected by at least one or two builders, it will most likely collapse. You'll need at least two water arrows, or a very well-placed one, to extinguish it, and while it takes longer to spread it does block players from going near the source.

    It's just an idea, so please criticise.
    I'd love to hear about any improvements you guys can come up with.
    (if you made it this far, thanks for reading this wall of text!)
     
  2. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Are you asking for a nerf to fire? We need a BUFF to fire. Just put one or two stone blocks and it is fine.
     
    daskew87 likes this.
  3. Draco1991

    Draco1991 Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    61
    Love this idea, it'd change the way battles are planned and how each team would work around fire. I like this because fire usually engulfs a building in seconds but this would make it so archers could limit movement within a building from the outside with well placed arrows like you said. Hope some devs come by and sees this because its a great idea. Even if someone could mod it and then present it to the devs (I can't code soz). But I hope it gets implemented someday
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  4. Sytoplasma

    Sytoplasma Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    88
    Personally, I love the idea and think it would contribute greatly to the quality of gameplay.

    I think of it less as a nerf and more as a reimplementation. It changes the way fire works, causing it to burn longer and spread slower, making a well-placed shot detrimental to the enemy team's advance and reinforcements.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  5. Xurxes

    Xurxes Shipwright

    Messages:
    14
    i like this, that fire lasts longer but is slower to spread, makes knights and archers keep spare water ammo to put out fires
     
    Sytoplasma likes this.
  6. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    No, it's not a nerf. Think about it:
    The fire starts big; about the size of a water arrow's splash. It also stays there for quite a while, giving it more time to spread!
    AND while that area is burning, archers and knights can't get through; they'd obviously burn to death.

    Stone blocks can still be used to block fires, but isn't that a good thing?
    Do you ever use the builder class? If you did, you'd know that fire is a pain in the ass. (Too busy rekking noobs with your archery skills, I guess?)
    KAG's balance is usually kinda like this: A clever "X" can easily prevent something from happening, others probably fail.
    Clever archers zip around the battlefield with their hooks, others hook themselves onto the wrong side of a hill and get stuck.
    Clever knights buy two bombs, launch themselves halfway accross the map, and wreak havoc, and others blow themselves up.
    With fire, there's no such thing. It just spreads so fast that builders can only prevent them by using stone blocks.
    With these changes, however, clever builders can calmly assess the situation, place stone blocks where necessary, and extinguish the fires that can't be controlled.

    Conclusion:
    Block damage is nerfed. Use bomb arrows instead.
    Player damage stays the same, but it will be much easier to burn someone if the fire lasts longer, so lets call this one a buff.
    Tactical building becomes more important; after building a tower and some workshops, a builder must create extra exits and entrances.
    Fire arrows are buffed: While the fire is less dangerous to buildings, think of what would happen if you fired an AoE burning arrow into a group of archers, builders, or unsuspecting knights...
    (probably means that fire arrows need to be more expensive!)

    I don't see how this would be a nerf to fire. I buffed almost everything ::P:
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2015 ---
    ^exactly
     
    EhRa, Magmus and Sytoplasma like this.
  7. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    So you want a molotov arrow? I think it'd be kinda cool to add a kind of AoE fire aspect to fire arrows to make them more useful. And I actually play builder quite a bit and almost never have problems with fire arrows. I also play archer a lot and very very rarely buy fire arrows.
     
    Sytoplasma likes this.
  8. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Pretty much, maybe it shouldn't spread fire to people unless it hits them directly though.
    Firing it at a group of people would only work if they're on a wooden surface.
    (arrow ignites wood, wood burns players. Don't want to make it overpowered.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  9. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    81
    I think having the fire burn longer on given blocks before they break would be an interesting buff. You'd be able to use fire more offensively this way; creating fire pits, traps, or just igniting your front tower wall that's lined with wood to discourage enemies from climbing it. Or perhaps a type of wood block that's constructed from normal wood (like a 10:1 ratio. 10 wood = 1 resistant wood block) that allows fire to burn longer before it destroys the block. This would also make buckets more relevant. Fire resistant blocks pls, Geti
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    Sytoplasma likes this.
  10. Draco1991

    Draco1991 Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    61
    So it's essentially a rework? Just call it this so people don't go on about 'archers are the last ones who need a buff!!!' and 'WOW I'm an archer main and I don't want them nerfed!!!' Reworks save the time of people complaining about these two points. Like I said before, I'd love to see this implemented, even as a mod. Maybe propose it to the people who are working on the Balance or Rework mod (I've forgotten the name of the mod and name/s of the people working on it whoops)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    Sytoplasma likes this.
  11. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    I'm calling it better flames because they become less powerful.
    An archer will no longer be able to burn a building to the ground if there's at least one or two builders to take care of it.

    If people decide that my suggestion is bad simply because they misunderstood the title and based their opinion on that, I don't really care about their opinions.
     
  12. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    I agree with everything you said, but also fires should end after destroying 20-30 blocks to prevent giant wooden structures from being destroyed with one swift arrow, I mean look at it in a balancing perspective, it doesn't make sense a cheap arrow can take out a whole fort if no one tends to it.
     
  13. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Nah, there's no need for that. Remember that "my" flames don't spread fast. If the builders neglect to take care of an easily burned building for that long, it's because of their stupidity and not because the flames spread too far.
    Maybe they'll even have to roof their towers or make maintenance tunnels, to check up on their towers once in a while, just in case an archer got past and tried to burn it. :P
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  14. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    239
    Deleted off-topic + 1 word posts.
     
    Superblackcat, PUNK123 and J-man2003 like this.
  15. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    this would be extremely lame. Builders can only replace burning blocks with stone if the block isnt damaged(if it is youd have to used wood and by that time everything would be on fire). Your suggestion would basically make it to where only archers and knights can stop fire(unless your on a water map but there arent many water maps and defending against fire shouldnt be relied upon there being water on a map)
     
Mods: Rainbows