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Tweaks Bomb Tweaks

Discussion in 'Modding [KAG]' started by Sinleet, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    47
    The code looks very reasonable imo. Are you still working on code for swapping out the Bomb.png, or did i simply miss it?
     
  2. Sinleet

    Sinleet Shipwright

    Messages:
    36
    Team value is already determined in bombs, the colors I used in the new bomb were from the palette, they swap based on team automatically. I'm currently working on assigning teams to explosions and fire for consistency's sake.
     
    zerd and kodysch like this.
  3. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    47
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    I haven't tested it ingame yet, but even if it does not fit in with the regular kag graphics, this would be perfect for a training mod where you had all the important hidden information highlighted more visually.

    If anyone is trying to make something like that, i have some crude charge bar script i can share. It is currently set up for slashes, bombs and kegs (if i remember correctly), but could probably easily be extended to stuff like block/tree health etc.

    EDIT: you've guessed it... typos
     
  4. Sinleet

    Sinleet Shipwright

    Messages:
    36
    Imagine if the blood was colored too, "Blue guy: Yeah, I just had all my blood replaced with blue last week, fuck the reds"
     
    Sir_Walter likes this.
  5. BanakaI1

    BanakaI1 Shipwright

    Messages:
    215
  6. Sinleet

    Sinleet Shipwright

    Messages:
    36
  7. Tizmiz

    Tizmiz Horde Gibber Tester

    Messages:
    20
    Yes, perhaps. I wouldn't die from a person randomly slashing as much as my teammate throwing a retard-bomb and an archer kobe-smacking it down into a crowd. That is a pretty unavoidable situation, wouldn't you agree?
     
  8. Sinleet

    Sinleet Shipwright

    Messages:
    36
    It is if you're expecting it. Kobe banks on you not.
     
  9. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    to be clear, i meant shooting bombs midair is random as all hell, i can see 70% of the time, the archer just dying because they failed to deflect it, this encourages bad archer play since the archer's most effective style is to dodge, then retaliate with legolas/from distance, not to stand and die.

    sure it could create some "epic moments", but i think you should be encouraging proper archer play.

    shooting ground bombs(and changing their teamnum as a result) is just punishing the other team mates when they shouldnt be punished, i've seen tons of bad knights trying to bombjump on top of a tower, an archer would shoot it off, for it to land right in the middle of all the builders. do they deserve to die because the knight was stupid? no, they dont. builders are already shit on at the front lines, do you really want to shit on them while they're "safe" behind their walls?
     
    ZeroZ30o likes this.
  10. ZeroZ30o

    ZeroZ30o Bison Rider

    Messages:
    119
    That is exactly what I meant aswell.
     
  11. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    47
    I would probably thank the archer for not allowing my teammate to destroy/bombjump off our own tower. Also, if an archer can hit a bomb on top of your tower, he can most likely also lop over bombarrows as well, and any builder inside, should not feel "safe".

    "do they deserve to die because the knight was stupid?"
    No, i believe they deserve to die because of the incredible prediction, timing and aiming from the opportunistic, enemy archer.

    Lets say this happened randomly though, would it then be more fair to only do damage to the knight who lit the bomb, rather than also his teammates?

    I would like to hear an argument from someone who think this tweak would happen too randomly to be fair, yet still thinks bombs should be targetable by arrows.
     
  12. ZeroZ30o

    ZeroZ30o Bison Rider

    Messages:
    119
    You forgot that the archer can be countering a push, where a knight atempts to bomb jump and the bomb hits his builders. Wouldn't be fair.
    Edit: Also, it's the builder's fault to not put wood on top of the roof for knights to jump.

    With that mentality, the game would be extremelly annoying for new players to get in, not to mention risk vs reward is extremelly unbalanced, considering the archer is far from the bomb and could get more than a triple kill with it. That's not a good way to think about it, take for example CoD kill streaks, they diserved it (I guess), but it's extremelly unfair, so it's not a good mechanic.
    It's like good snipers in any FPS, where you can get one-shot: it will never be fair in high level games, unless there is a counter, which there is not. (and even if there was a counter for the bomb thing risk vs reward would still be unbalanced)
     
  13. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    47
    Good point about putting wood blocks on top of towers for bombjumping off, i don't think not having wood there is a valid reason for friendly knights to destroy their own overhangs etc. anyway though, unless the situation is very critical.

    Regarding killstreaks in CoD, i believe they mostly suck, since using them requires no particular skill.

    I'd love to discuss FPS mechanics, but to get back on topic, i see your point about risk vs reward, but i don't find it unbalanced due to the skill/awareness requirement of it.

    I don't see the connection with CoD killstreaks, and archers can already one-shot-snipe a builder with a bomb-arrow if I am not mistaken. The difference being that a bomb-arrow requires farming-coins etc. (not skillful), taking advantage of the tweak that sinleet suggested requires greater skill + situational awareness.
     
  14. ZeroZ30o

    ZeroZ30o Bison Rider

    Messages:
    119
    I mentioned CoD killstreaks as a comparation for getting unfair kills. I think there was some kind of helicopter, which would pretty much kill you for sure, and even if that took skill (which btw, it does not, just like this), it is unfair for whoever gets killed since the killer is in no risk whatsoever and the person killed cannot "dodge" it. Unless the arrow hitting the bomb would re-start its timer, in which case it would be slightly more fair.

    I see your point, but I disagree on the fact that skill is more important than risk. There's a huge difference.
    You have (pretty much) infinite arrows to fire, and you are not putting yourself in a position where you could die at no point. I understand that the situation might be rare, but let's just say it happens every 3 seconds: you would kill someone eventually, more if you have more skill, but still, they would not diserve it.
    Players would say "OP" everytime they got killed by it.
    Think about how you would feel as a builder, trying to help your team (when, btw, builders are alredy pretty bad), when you get killed by your own team's bomb.
    Knights are not OP. Archers are. They don't need any buffs. And less if they're frustrating/unfair.
     
  15. Apronymous

    Apronymous Bison Rider

    Messages:
    326
     
  16. ZeroZ30o

    ZeroZ30o Bison Rider

    Messages:
    119
    Not to mention the mechanic itself would be weird. I just don't like it to start with, but it would be one way to make it relatively fair.
     
  17. 101i

    101i Haxor Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    445
    When you say luck, you mean like the old knife in earlier builds right?
     
  18. Sinleet

    Sinleet Shipwright

    Messages:
    36
    I've never seen a knight attempting to bomb jump into an enemy base stand behind his bomb

    I've never seen an assaulting builder not worried about enemy knights throwing bombs

    I've never seen a team not complain that whilst they were assaulting; all of their archers sat on some tower at base
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
    Apronymous likes this.
  19. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    Especially in the sense that it never was a good idea in the first place.
     
    101i likes this.
  20. PandemicCommander

    PandemicCommander Shipwright

    Messages:
    137
    This reminds me of the pyro's airblast in TF2. Really like the idea! I love shooting bombs out from under knights, if I could waste another enemy with the bomb, that would be great! Also, it would mean the person pulling off a move like that would actually get the much deserved, kill credit.