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Buckler item for archers

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Blue_Tiger, Oct 3, 2015.

Mods: Rainbows
  1. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    There is a glitch in KAG where you can, as an archer, hold a mine and use it to deflect shots, if they hit you in the correct spot. Recently, I've been trying to use this glitch to my advantage (mostly in TDM since mines are way too expensive in CTF) but it seems to be pretty luck based on whether arrows can hit you on the mine spot. If you can move yourself to get the mine to deflect the shot, you might as well just move out the way. There is no aiming of using the mine as a shield against arrows, and mines get destroyed by bombs, bomb arrows, kegs, etc.

    This got me thinking though, what if there was an item that archers (maybe even knights and builders? idk if it would be too OP) that could deflect arrows. Basically exactly like the mine (maybe a bit smaller hitbox) that you could aim to deflect shots, e.g. if an arrow is coming at your head, you could aim the buckler to your head and shield the arrow. I don't think there are a lot of people who have tried as much as me to abuse the mine's defensive capabilities, but there are a lot of drawbacks to it before you start calling the OP card. Every time you see something on the ground that you don't insta-pickup, you have to put your mine away, pick it up, then take you mine back out. If you want to clear your inventory, you have to deselect the mine. If you want to switch arrows, there's no quick-tapping of F, you have to manually select which arrow you want to use.

    Also, I want to clarify that the buckler would only shield against arrows (deflect regular arrows and fire arrows, and take 1.5 hearts when a bomb arrows hit them, water arrows would still stun). Any bomb, slash, stomp, ballista bolt, lagipult spam would still damage/kill you.

    If it is still too OP, then maybe there could be cooldown every time you get hit on the buckler, maybe the same time as a water arrow so an archer could hit shield -> hit archer if they are skilled.

    What do you guys think?
     
    daskew87 and J-man2003 like this.
  2. Mariox222

    Mariox222 Arsonist
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    54
    you can double tap c with a mine towards incoming arrow to effectively block it.


    There are shields in game
     
    toothgrinderx likes this.
  3. Rainbows

    Rainbows KAG Guard Forum Moderator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    985
    it seems like a fix to a non existant need which only makes the game a bit more complicated
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  4. The_Owl_King

    The_Owl_King Arsonist Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    26
    Seems like It could be a cool idea, But you wouldn't want it to be broken as you seem to be aware of.
     
  5. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Would add more depth to the archer class and the game which is always nice :). A lot of people seems to be getting bored and leaving.

    Also, it does solve one problem - archer nests. Going archer in a server with more than 16 people is hell because of noobs just sitting behind stone platforms. With the shield, you could, with skill, climb, dodge and shield against arrows coming in. With more than 2 noobs hiding behind the platforms, it is near impossible to do anything as an archer without a builder to build an archer nest for you - at which point, why even play? Just sit behind a wall shooting at knights.

    For knights.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  6. blackjoker77777

    blackjoker77777 Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    442
    yeah ofc, why does knights have shields and archers don't? why does archers shoot arrows and knights don't? why not make all the classes able to use grapple, arrows ,bombs ,sword and shield... oh and you know what? make them also able to build or destroy enemies structures ... -.-
    Edit: just delete all the classes and replace them with chickens and we will be fine.
     
    Biurza, Dargona1018 and J-man2003 like this.
  7. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    lol. It's not the same shield knights have, it's an item you need to buy that takes more skill to aim and only defends against arrows. It is worthless against knights and builders.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  8. blackjoker77777

    blackjoker77777 Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    442
    if you'd like that then I do want a grapple for knights, it won't be the same grapple archers have, it will be an item you equip that takes some skill to aim and grapple and it will only work on ground (water disables it). It is worthless against everyone but it will provide us some agility that archers have (as the shield you are asking for that will provide archers, knight's main defense equipment). :^)
    Ok now enough jokes, (and I don't want to get warned for going off-topic). You know that archers are supposed to be ranged class right? but the shotgun made them pretty powerful when engaging in a close combat with a knight (I personally get frustrated by some pro archers due to that :P), giving them a shield will make everything much worse, this will give archers another reason to go forward and engage in more close fights (even if the shield will only deflect arrows).
    I still think this idea will break game balance and get more "archer is buffed, buff knights too ! give them this, that and those !" feedback.
    Maybe if you could make it a bit less OP ?
     
    Biurza and GreyHCK like this.
  9. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    This used to be an issue with builders holding doors, because your character is actually holding the blob.

    The mine thing is likely a reamnant of the same issue, you're just holding the blob and it's not a layer of your character sprite, probably makes the transition from holding to throwing faster.

    The reason it's hard to abuse is lag, nothing is ever exactly where you see it on screen unless you have true 0 MS (any time kag says you have 0, it's not correct... unless you're playing on LAN, but even then, there would still be an infinitely small amount of delay).

    It would be a neat feature for holding logs, and just have the logs break very easily, might make combat too complicated though. Cool mod idea!

    Pro-tip, you can throw burgers to deflect arrows ;D

    The buckler is a neat idea, but again seems like overcomplication. Would be cool as a mod.
     
    Dargona1018, Blue_Tiger and J-man2003 like this.
  10. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    What? It's not even a buff to archers. It's something archer can use to defend themselves against OTHER ARCHERS. The only time it will ever effect knights is if it's like a 2v1, 1 knight and 1 archer vs an archer, and then an archer can shield against the arrows coming in - but try doing that when you're grappling around like Spiderman, shooting at a knight and watching your surroundings.

    Also, have you played archer like a "ranged class". IT'S BORING AS FUCK. I'm sorry, but I hate it when people get all pissed off when someone wants archer to have more offensive capabilities. Being defensive is the most boring shit ever and the reason archer was made more CQ is because it is 10x more fun than camping behind a shitty platform shooting.

    Also, can you stop shitting on my idea. I can understand you don't like it, but I would expect more from you especially to just crap all over it. Give me some valid points instead of laughing at it.

    Yeah I was mainly hoping someone with modding skills would see this and put it on a server to try it out. I doubt this will make it anywhere close to being vanilla without it being successful in a mod.
     
  11. blackjoker77777

    blackjoker77777 Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    442
    In fact, I tried but I'm the worst archer you could ever see...
    No I'm not pissed off, I just do not like the idea of buffing archers because I think they are balanced enough the way they are at the moment.
    I'm sorry about that, I apologize about my disrespectful behavior, I didn't mean to offend you or your idea and I didn't mean to laugh at it at all. I just found that it's illogical to give archers a shield (even if it's going to be a nerfed one) because as you know, each class should have some special equipment (bow+arrows+grapple/sword+shield+bombs) and as I mentioned before archer is supposed to be mainly a ranged class.
    I might suggest that you make the archer unable to attack when he's holding the shield (and maybe a bit slower?) so that he would be vulnerable the moment he removes it, but I think that it's still a bit illogical...
    I can't really give a biased POV here because I'm used to play knight and know that pro archers are able to snipe anyone from any distance from any place at any time, and they know how to dodge any type of incoming attacks including arrows.
    I'm not saying that archers should camp behind platforms, but I'm just saying that it won't be a wise idea to encourage them to get much involved in CQ. :/
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
    Biurza likes this.
  12. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Yep, I can do all that. Except against 5 archers all shooting me at once. And it's super infuriating. Also the shield can be expensive. Like, 50 coins? Consider that if you don't use it effectively, you could get like no coins return from it, and you are consuming an amount that could burn a layer of stone. Again, it is not a buff to archers, it is useless against knights, it is only useful against archers.
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  13. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    It's just not really necessary, at least in Vanilla.

    More options is nice, but the point of basic KAG is to be simple and easy to understand.
     
  14. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    If you want to block arrows an archer use a saw, works great i use it as builder too.
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  15. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    804
    I kinda like this idea, but maybe something like a log (picked up) that would block the arrows.
     
  16. neil58

    neil58 Drill Rusher Staff Alumni
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    99
    If you want to block arrows, you can just arrow cancel. This nifty trick is basically spamming half shots to cancel out the other archer's arrow. It isn't really effective at a distance, but it works fairly well for CQC. Anyways, I doubt an arrow shield for archer would be a good idea. Usually, you can avoid most arrows [excluding cancerous archer spam] with timing and placement. Even if the buckler was implemented, you would just be blocking campy archers' arrows, not really changing the situation at all.
     
  17. Trumbles

    Trumbles Base Burner

    Messages:
    449
    I've had some luck using quarter shots to block long ranged shots, rarely a reason to do it unless you need an extra moment to find cover, but it's fun to do!
     
  18. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Nah, I'd climb over those niqqas archer nest and kill them all.

    But thanks for tip for quarter shot spam, I'll try it.
     
Mods: Rainbows