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Devlog KAG Build 2628 - Quarry Nerfs, Quickswap Improvements, TDM Map Changes, more

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Jun 28, 2018.

?

Happy with the quarry after these nerfs?

Poll closed Jul 5, 2018.
  1. Yep

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  2. Nah

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,707
    Hey folks!

    So, the Quarry was an exciting new change, but we've seen a LOT of stone in CTF ever since.

    [​IMG]

    This build slows the rate of conversion from wood to stone, makes the building cost more gold, and holds a smaller stockpile of fuel. We've kept the efficiency the same to avoid them remaining hugely wood-hungry. This should see them enter more of a supplementary production role, rather than being a team's primary production.

    If we're still not happy with the outcome after these nerfs, we're considering a switch to a coin-consuming quarry as laid out here by @Potatobird. We're also open to other options and welcome your feedback! :thumbs_up:

    There are also some quick fixes and tweaks to the builder quickswap code, and the healing button no longer works while stunned, which prevents some relatively extreme tanking strats I'm afraid. Theres a crash fix and a new TDM map (plus two unpopular maps removed) to round out the build.

    Have Fun!
    Max

    Code:
    Full Changelog:
    
    Quarry:
    
    [modified] quarry costs 100 gold to build, converts slower, holds smaller wood stockpile
    [added] Quarry sound when turned on (thanks Mazey)
    
    Misc:
    
    [fixed] healing no longer possible when stunned
    [modified] Builder quickswap fixes/tweaks (thanks Potatobird)
    [fixed] Can't quickswap to building frame
    [modified] Builder quickswap makes sound effect
    [added] "gold building" code supports customised drop amounts
    [fixed] potential divide by zero in sprite code (thanks Mirsario and Asu)
    
    TDM Maps: (Thanks map mods and authors!)
    
    [added] FG Clash
    [removed] Biurza Stompy Bois
    [removed] FG Enclosure
    [fixed] mapcycle folder typos
    
     
  2. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor

    Messages:
    1,183
    apology for poor english

    when were you when quary dies?

    i was sat at home playing monsterictf2 when geti ring

    ‘quarry is kill’

    ‘yes’
     
  3. Mazey

    Mazey Haxor Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,878
  4. Potatobird

    Potatobird Ballista Bolt Thrower Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    757
    I can only conclude that even the potential to have two or three of these quarries is still kind of busted.

    This was like a 2v5 for most of the game because my team kept getting bored and leaving. Pictured: after spending my 1000 coins on bomb arrows and wasting the majority of them. Not as bad as some of the other screenies, but it was a relatively short and low population game. screen-18-06-28-23-20-56.png

    screen-18-06-28-23-21-09.png

    With the higher gold price, now maybe only one team will end up with 2-3 quarries? But that might just feel even more unfair.

    People won't bother to set them up, or are convinced that quarries are now garbage, so you probably won't see as many games like this. At least, not until people figure out that they can actually still be game-changing.
    [23:05:14] <Pardonreed> jesus flip
    [23:05:15] <Pardonreed> what
    [23:05:16] <Pardonreed> wheres
    [23:05:20] <Fueg0pants> * nice *
    [23:05:22] <dngrnoodl> HOW MANY DO YOU HAVE
    [23:05:32] <Pardonreed> how are you affordin all these wtf
    [23:05:37] <Potatobird> what do you mean?
    [23:05:41] <Potatobird> I have quarries
    [23:05:43] <dngrnoodl> 50 per
    [23:05:44] <Pardonreed> how much money do you actually -=
    [23:05:45] <Pardonreed> o
    [23:05:48] <Pardonreed> thats

    I mean this is all kind of anecdotal, but try the strategy out sometime and you'll see. Although it doesn't really work nearly as well when multiple people use them, which is another kind of crappy aspect about their current mechanics. There's no I in team, but there is an I in quarries.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    bunnie and epsilon like this.
  5. Darruin

    Darruin Shopkeep Stealer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    17
    Another example.. this one was before the nerf but geti asked for it. Haven't seen anything like this since the nerf though which is good. quarries.jpg
     
    epsilon and EhRa like this.
  6. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,282
    Before implementing such a feature there should be a discussion on how many trees maps should have, and with the latest changes, gold should be re-thought as well.
     
    Blubahub, mcrifel and Element_Paladin like this.
  7. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    274
    What you don't realise is that there's no point in having a quarry if it's not considered "overpowered". It's now another boat shop - it adds no value in terms of fun (it never did; it's a chore to utilise it) and it's now pointless to use. The mere purpose this building could have, would be to add balance (i.e. build vs. demolish, to extend time of games / stalemates). However, CTF was never balanced with this building in mind and it's not needed now. It directly contributes to a problem the community has complained about for ages: Stalemates and increased game time.

    This implementation is an example of how bad a quantitative approach to selection of new features in a small community can be. Especially, because it's done on a platform made for the developer and not the consumer (GitHub). Any shit idea can be voted in w/ 8 friends or some fake accounts (could be fun to attempt this) and as witnessed, the developers are unable to determine if an idea is shite.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  8. GoldenGuy

    GoldenGuy Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester

    Messages:
    97
  9. Potatobird

    Potatobird Ballista Bolt Thrower Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    757
    A lot of that is pretty spot on. There's already been talk of moving voting/discussion to discord, where there's obviously a lot more activity than github. I don't really like the idea of "Vote on whether you like this thing" either, I think opinions matter a lot more when people explain them and show that they've actually thought it out and aren't just throwing in a reactionary 2-cents :thumbsup:.

    But I mean, the boat shop isn't hurting anything. Nobody's like, "Down with boat shops! Take them out!" It's possible for a game to be bloated and have too many useless features, but I would say KAG is pretty far from that. Even with boat shops, at least every once in a while, someone's gonna buy a boat and have a good time, so it's still a net positive effect, however slight.

    Quarries are still overpowered though. There's a pretty big difference between "sometimes someone will bust out the ol' boat shop and have a little bit of a good time with a silly boat," and "sometimes someone will bust two or three quarries out and kill the fun."

    Also, if they end up going with my suggestion, quarries would no longer be a chore to use. Just sayin'
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    bunnie likes this.
  10. Element_Paladin

    Element_Paladin Shopkeep Stealer Tester
    1. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    59
    production factories should just stay in TTH. The maps in that game-mode are tremendously large, and builders wouldn't bother wasting so much time. However, it isn't for CTF. It is okay in a game-mode like TTH where if there's a quarry and builders are creating a giant tower near their home base, you can just wait for like a minute at your base and counter-camp with a couple kegs. It's a comfort to know that for this long, the balance between construction and destruction was pretty balanced (builder makes tower, enemy just rats or blows it up with kegs/ballista bolts), now with the quarry there really is no balance in how important a class is compared to the next. You found a small problem and stuffed it with a large, itchy, sticky band-aid, and now you need to deal with the rashes.
     
    EhRa and bunnie like this.
  11. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    484
    20180702214910_1.jpg 20180702215844_1.jpg
     
    bunnie likes this.
  12. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor

    Messages:
    1,183
  13. JiffIez

    JiffIez Arsonist

    Messages:
    33
    As it has been pointed out, the first iteration of the Quarry was terrible due to mass amounts of stone being generated. The newer version with the reduced rate seems more reasonable. I'm enjoying the new quarry as it gives defensive builders a bit more influence in a match instead of having to search for more stone deep underground or, god forbid, out in the fray.

    I like the new builder swapping mechanic and I'm glad the building frame was removed from that option. I would like to make a suggestion that this same mechanic be applied to archer arrow swapping if it hasn't already been done/ruled out. It would make swapping arrows a bit more viable while in combat instead of having to find a safe area to do so.
     
  14. Lava

    Lava Former Lag King Official Server Admin Donator Tester

    Messages:
    218
    If you press [Inventory Bound Button] once it will cycle through the arrows you have, the builder swap for an archer would only help if they had 3 types of arrows and that is kind of unusual.