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Builders are too important

Discussion in 'Classes & Mechanics' started by AJFaas, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Or even better; position a catapult in front of the trampoline cannon and launch knights into space.
    I really wonder why I don't see this happen as often as it should. It's way too powerful and usually wins the match. :wink:
     
    Obione5256 likes this.
  2. _Cuffs_

    _Cuffs_ Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    102
    I think most people don't know about this. I didn't ;-;
     
  3. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Methods of extending a jump:
    Jump. Knight's shield glide. Knight's bombjump. A catapult. Several trampolines.
    A jump gets you past a linepiece.
    Add a shieldglide and you can jump from a hill to a tower, or maybe even between two of a building's towers.
    Using a bomb a knight can skip a tower entirely.
    A catapulted bombjump lets you skip about a fourth of a regular map's width.
    A trampoline-powered bombjump lets you fly over half of it.
    Being catapulted into a trampoline cannon with a cooked bomb, and a shield glide?
    Well let's just say that sometimes the map isn't long enough.
     
  4. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I think the problem is builder is boring af to play, especially in a pun match full of retards who don't defend you at all (or worse, killwhores who use you as bait in BD). The few crazies out there who actually find builder fun get good, they win every game. Not only because people like me can't really deal with them as builder, but because no one wants to switch to builder.

    Conclusion: Builder OP -> buff builder.
     
    franek123 and PUNK123 like this.
  5. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    The main thing that makes KAG different from your regular platform-style fighter is building.
    The fact that a strong builder is an advantage is not a bug, it's a feature.
     
    _Cuffs_ likes this.
  6. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Your reply doesn't say anything about my post.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2015 ---
    To add to my last post, I think that builder should have some offensive combat buffs. I understand that builder isn't supposed to be one to fight in direct combat but hear me out. Both other classes have the ability to play solo (something you do a lot in a pub match). Knights can bomb jump over the enemy tower and fuck shit up, 1v5ing noobs is easy even for me as a pretty crappy knight if I'm playing right. Archer can grapple around the enemy base and tower, killing enemy archers and builders and kiting knights around to waste their time. Builders? You can get digging and tunnel to the enemy base; sounds thrilling.

    If builder had some more combat options than grabbing a pickaxe and swinging till immediate death, it'd be easier to solo and more fun. Although the main point is to keep it so you knights and archers to win in real games (clan wars, scrims, captains), but a builder can still have a fun time soloing when he's in a team of noobs.

    Some thoughts:

    • Bring back old boulder - right now, you need to be lucky when you're throwing from the top of a tower, haven't seen a boulder in CTF for months.
    • Make it so drill can't randomly destroy - this is a stupid feature anyway.
    • Make it so drilling cancels a slash (would probably be OP) - it would make it basically a knights jab. Just stand away and slash from range. Maybe make it so you can shield a drill to make it fairer.
    • Bring back old spikes or buff spike drops - these were a bit defensive but still a fun combat mechanic for builder. They were only OP against people who didn't see it coming (people who just got the game and would be killed by any decent knight/archer anyway).
    • The axe from the rebalance mod? - I haven't seen or used it, but it's like the knight's slash except one heart I think? I don't think it suits builder though.
    • Increase builder inventory space so they can carry the tools to attack people (mines, drills, burgers).
     
  7. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,277
    Cancerous for any combat lol[(they werent used much in ctf before by any class other than archer anyway)insta-killing feature to them is lame]
    they get destroyed when slashed or dropped
    arent cancels just really short stuns?(like when a knight uses jabs to stop a builder from running away or drilling). Doesnt sound completely cancerous(though still pretty bad)
    Lol no would completely ruin every pub game.

    we dont need @RadioActive running around with 4+ burgers
     
    franek123 likes this.
  8. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    The fuck dude? I'm already killing more people as builder than most of knights. Spikes can already instakill and drill is kinda op vs other builders and archers. It's good that we can't just 1v1 every knight. Also builders CAN go solo, blocking off whole enemy team in their base and then dig for flag or build knightshop and spam kegs. Only thing i kinda agree with is to buff boulders, imo they should cost coins, not stone so it would be actually sensible to buy them
     
    PUNK123 and mcrifel like this.
  9. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Yes. Franek can go solo. You are one of the best builders. Most players don't have anywhere near the patience to become as good as you or Colar or Inferno (literally the list of good builders EU). Whenever I wanna play builder in a CTF match, I lose most of my hair and end up wasting 30 minutes of my life tunnelling after countless attempts at rushing while my team jerks off.

    Compare builder to knight or archer. A great builder will almost never lose to a shitty one. It puts shit builders off playing and getting better. On the other hand, a jabspamming knight will beat the best sometimes (I've done it), and a shotgun spamming archer will beat a good archer quite often.

    IMO the learning curve of builder needs to be more gradual to give noob builders more of a chance (compare the amount of pro knights and archers to the amount of builders and you'll see my reasoning).
     
  10. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    Yeah, but you can't just buff builders to make more people play it. That way you will end up with a horde of skill-less builders and few unbeatable fgts.
     
  11. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    So you're saying that builders are too important...
    which is why they have to be buffed instead of nerfed?
    I personally like the idea; I loved combat builder and used to fight knights one on one and win, back in the early builds. But even though it was fun I don't think it was balanced.
    You're right, builder is the boring class, which is why good ones are rare.
    Maybe if explosives were nerfed, building would be more fun; seeing your hard work blown to bits with one keg and some idiotic archer who left the door open is really depressing.
     
  12. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Builder is boring ?::P: its way more fun to play than knight or archer i'll tell you that right here

    This is would fix a problem that doesn't exist, I never get depressed when someone destroys my work, but then again I don't minecraft while playing kag.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  13. franek123

    franek123 The architect of the royal castle. Donator Tester

    Messages:
    514
    Since when hard = boring?
    d6f.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    Dargona1018 and DatNobby like this.
  14. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    Regarding the first quote... When did I say builder is not boring? In your quote you agree with me, but your tone makes it appear that you're trying to rebut me. Sorry if I'm wrong but it's kinda silly.
    As for the second, I wasn't talking about those annoying base-hoggers that spend half the game minecrafting near the edge of the map. Have you ever seen a "real" builder's creations?
    With spike-dropping gaps, archery nests, four block thick repairable walls, kneecappers, etcetera?
    Those can hold off an army for hours of real-time, if the enemy team isn't smart enough to buy two kegs and drop them at the gate.
     
  15. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Exactly.

    More words so this doesn't get counted as spam

    #blameFurai
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2015 ---
    Hard=/=boring. Boring=boring. With a shit team, it is near impossible to attack the enemy team as a builder, so you end up just tunneling which is boring. There is also little-no action as a builder anyway.

    Also, I consider archer a way harder class to pick up than builder. I picked up builder in a few days and bested punk in a few scrims in our FoD vs. LVT scrims. It took me over a year to get good at archer.
     
  16. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    That's the popular opinion. It's a shame really, a good trap or wall can make a builder proud, and enemies angry.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2015 ---
    That's not true, every CTF needs one or two builders who charge to take fortresses or fortify hills and tunnels. If you play offensive builder you'll get lots of action, but your KD rate will suffer.
     
  17. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    lots of action = lots of deaths while your team sits there watching? xD

    and to be clear, I don't care about my KD, but sitting and watching a "respawning" screen for half the game isn't fun.
     
  18. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    I did not say builder was boring D:
     
    franek123 likes this.
  19. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,277
    I personally dont think franek, col@r, or mcrifel can dominate other teams when their teams are completely useless. Do not misconstrue my point, they are pretty good but not game dominating. I say this because i never see col@r in pubs and his overall style of play is dependent on his teammates. Still, ive seen frank play and get owned because the other team was better, and lefty(who is probably consider by most to be one of, if not, the best us builders) cannot accomplish anything if he is forced out of mid/shutdown by a good opposing team. Also lol at 8x being ignored by noob saltager. Irregardless, builders arent game dominating, they are just multipliers for the team they are on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    franek123 likes this.
  20. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    239
    Deleted off-topic + spam. Please keep to the original topic, take your discussions about tramp cannons etc. to the appropiate thread
     
    franek123 likes this.