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Dev Blog Changes large and small

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Apr 11, 2012.

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  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    We've decided to be even more open about development for the next month or so to see how that goes. This basically means more developer rants on here.

    We've fixed most of the issues introduced last build, and I will be working on the remaining few over the next few days as Michal sorts out Multiplayer Zombies. Most of them were caused by a missing line of code somewhere (such as the instakill on hitting a wall rather than damage on hitting a wall being caused by the damage not actually bouncing you off the wall).

    We're working with Ryan and Joe (our excellent tech guys) on getting an automated build process up, which would allow us to get a test build to testers every single time we make a change without actually having to do anything - same would apply for the public version. This will basically mean a more thoroughly tested KAG and less of these small yet very gameplay-detrimental bugs, as well as less change of something going wrong with patching as the files wont need to be manually published to the correct place.

    We've been discussing what'll need to be done for the War and Overworld modes of play in KAG. We're designing them in tandem because the mode of play will be quite similar - War will just be on a single map with less open-ended play. The content in both of these modes will more or less be the final featureset for KAG - everything needs to fit together perfectly. Server owners will be able to mix and match this content to create new (and old) game-modes like CTF, INF, KOTH, Bomb Ball, and whatever else takes their fancy, but it all needs to work together as well.

    [​IMG]

    The Classes are the most important part of KAG. In Classic, we have 3 classes with fairly general roles - the builder, the archer and the knight. We're going to specialise classes a little more in the full version. Archers and Knights will likely keep most of their functionality, but the builder doesn't quite fit into a game of progression in its current state.

    As you can see above, there are three general areas of progression - Ranged/Support Military, Economy, and Melee military. We've designed these with strong interdependence in mind. The barbarian relies on knights to cover him from archer fire, and needs sappers or builders to help him break into the enemy fort to wreak havok. The knight requires covering fire from archers so that he can get past shielded enemies. The lancer requires a horse to be able to attack, and builders to make that horse a path into battle. Builders require miners and woodcutters to supply them with materials, and those miners and woodcutters require military protection from the hazards that we're going to put in their way.

    Something that I'm not really happy with in KAG at the moment is the independence of the military classes. They don't need a builder on the frontlines, so in public games you never see a builder on the frontlines. Knights can get themselves out of holes, archers can get themselves arrows. The builder is a helping hand but isn't required. We're likely to change that with the full version content.

    We're aware that mining and cutting wood isn't currently fun at all, so you might be wondering why on earth the military progressions start with gatherer classes. Firstly, this is to make sure that military units contribute to a teams economy - they dont just run off into battle, cark it, respawn and run off into battle again. Secondly, we're hoping to make the mining and woodcutting (especially mining) into PvE "minigames".

    Mines will be abstract entities - there might be some stone on the game maps but mostly there'll be doors into separate mining maps, that will hopefully be separated into levels. As a mine is dug deeper and deeper, the miners will require more support from their team as they come across underground dungeons, cave animals and other hazards (as well as to help them out of the mine with ladders). Deeper mines will yield more treasure, however. Early in the game when the entire melee military is a mining gang, they'll only be facing snakes and bats, but this will help to train them in melee combat and make sure that mining isn't too much like hard work.

    Woods will exist on the normal game map as trees and bushes still, but there will be woodland animals as well - they could be hunted for food (or eat the woodcutters). In order to make woodcutting more involved, we're planning on having freshly cut wood as "logs" worth 1 wood each. You can use these to build wooden stuff, but it would hardly be worth your while. These logs could be refined into planks either at a carpentry shop or with a spinning saw - hopefully this means that we'll see automated lumber mills (and horrible saw traps) once a team has a good wood economy going.

    I'll speak more about the progression system as we solidify it. Know that it wont be a rigid "tree" that you can only move upwards on. You wont be locked into your choices for each character.

    We want to refresh the interface. Cleaner now than it used to be, it still feels cluttered and cumbersome. We think that the emoticon bubbles are the cleanest, most straightforward part of the interface at the moment, so I've drawn up this quick concept outlining how we think the interface should look.

    [​IMG]

    The hearts and item count popup (top left) would appear if you had your cursor within a small radius of your character. The hearts would fade in and out if you got hit, and the item count would flash up when you used an item (ie shooting an arrow or throwing a bomb)

    The inventory and actions popup would appear while you hold F. It allows you to drop stacks of items and coins by clicking them and dragging them out of the interface, to put items to and from your hands by clicking and dragging within the window, and selecting performable actions like the current F menu.

    Interacting with objects and picking objects up would be done with E - all interactive objects within range would show their interface like the catapult above. Clicking the icons would perform the action specified. Same goes for workshops. Anything that could be picked up would also have a bubble around it while E was held, to be picked up by clicking. It'd go to your backpack if possible and to your hands otherwise.

    Here's a very zoomed-in concept of how it might look overlayed on the game:

    [​IMG]

    I know, I know, I missed out my blond hair in the mockup. Sue me.

    In other news, the new site will be going live at kag2d.com today/tomorrow at 6AM US Eastern Time (8PM AET, 11AM GMT). There may be a few technical mishaps in the change-over so be sure to report any and all issues on the forums or IRC.

    More to come!

    Geti
     
    Classic, AL3X_j_M, hans_02 and 45 others like this.
  2. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

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    Since I was on IRC about the classes part I won't bother discussing that, but I wanted to know, is going to be possible to move elements of the GUI around, or is that something that might be done much later (since the code is cumbersome since MM sucks at coding :p)?

    Anyways, smaller chat box is a +
     
    AL3X_j_M likes this.
  3. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    The chat would actually occur around the side of the screen ingame, in bubbles like that. A log would probably be visible while typing.

    The GUI elements will be invisible unless active so I'm not sure what you mean by move them around. To be clear, if your cursor was far from your character and you weren't doing anything, there would be no gui elements besides chat bubbles from other people onscreen.
     
  4. Foxodi

    Foxodi KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    433
    Public CTF just died a little. Long live the team death match.
    Nice to see more dev-openness. This gives the impression you are nearly ready to release everything you have been working on the past few months. (traps/slopes/siege/weather?/spectator)
     
    AL3X_j_M, Asterix and LostPix like this.
  5. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    Seems good especially the bit about testing, hope that goes well.

    Would have to suggest to stop binding so much crap to just F and E though, branch out, get more hotkeys, and FFS get buying from shops on a separate hotkey than picking stuff up, nothing is more annoying than a bomb over a shop, you not caring and wanting to buy from the shop real fast before it's blown up (enemy shop, bad placement, WHATEVER) and you pick up the bomb and die. :/

    Anyway yea, those classes look great, is that possibly going to happen after knights combat is balanced or before?

    Are the classes coming after/during the move of classes/players to the new 'Entities'? or is that a long way off still?

    Would also like to suggest if you are moving them over to the Entities to move over catapults, outposts, and tents.

    There are many reasons for this (further down the line) but they open up a lot of possibilities serverside for changes ;)
     
    Rayne, Cirom and Kouji like this.
  6. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

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    Ahh okay, then it isn't an issue then. I was wondering since I mostly play archer, I guess I just thought that inventory thing (the one with that shows how many bombs/arrows/coins/mats you have) would be moved to the top which might bother me with lobbed shots, but it isn't an issue if it's not active if my mouse is near the edge of the screen.
     
  7. bilbs

    bilbs KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    128
    I had a shit eating grin the whole time I read that last post. Can't wait.
     
  8. Beef

    Beef ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้้้้ Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

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    muscle wizard.png

    Is... is that a.. muscle wizard?

    Muscle Wizard.png

    I know which class I'll be playing as, lack of armour be damned.
     
  9. Livorion

    Livorion Shipwright

    Messages:
    39
    Something that intrigues me about the Classes in KAG...

    Premium members get different heads, but doesn't that feature complicates the easy recognition of a character job/class?

    I think the body alone won't be enough to identify a Class Occupation, like for example... a "poison user"?
     
  10. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    Bravo motherfucker, now I must play this class.

    [​IMG]
    Also, why does it look like this mofo has a boner?
     
  11. Beef

    Beef ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ ก้้้้้้้้้้้ Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

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    You'd have a boner too if you had a pick axe that big.

    Hard as diamonds
     
  12. massivebacon

    massivebacon Shopkeep Stealer

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    16
    At first I really thought the changes to the way builders gather materials sounded like a really poor idea, but the way you are changing it to make everything be a progression sounds interesting and very unconventional.

    However, this part:
    "The barbarian relies on knights to cover him from archer fire, and needs sappers or builders to help him break into the enemy fort to wreak havok. The knight requires covering fire from archers so that he can get past shielded enemies. The lancer requires a horse to be able to attack, and builders to make that horse a path into battle. "

    Somewhat worries me because I feel like you are putting way too much faith into the players. As it is currently, knights don't even block arrows for archers, so unless you design the system in such a way that screams "COOPERATE OR DIE", then people may not find motivation to help each other and will rather pursue selfish interests.

    I trust you, I just wanted to give my opinions.
     
  13. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
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    That's the barbarian.
     
  14. Bracket

    Bracket KAG Guard Tester

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    243
    :heart::eek::thumbs_up: :heart:

    ...I really don't have anything to say beyond that. :zchicken:
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  15. Gerald

    Gerald Bison Rider

    Messages:
    73
    new classes?
    sounds good (new tactics to kill :r_flex::B)::flex:)
     
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  16. Tyngn

    Tyngn Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    167
    I think this is pretty good but i feel that maybe the new mining system might not blend into the game all to well. (Just because you talked about the UI, if you are doing team chat can you not have typing bubble? It's very annoying when you are tunneling)
     
  17. Livorion

    Livorion Shipwright

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    Is that a potion thrower? Aww I was going to suggest that class xI
    pt.png

    I bet you guys like Final Fantasy Tactics :p
     

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  18. Sarmane

    Sarmane Go Tau'va yourself San Diego. Donator

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    The mere reference to an "economy" in the future of the KAG game makes me jump like this little guy :migrant:. Thinking just about the fact that the game develops a bit more of a real time strategy element to the game will only increase real games of CTF or maybe just "Kill the Enemy Castle/Team DeathMatch" with another layer of play that you can either sabotage the enemy or enhance personally to give your military better access to weapons, tech and just make classes used more or at least make the option available (random builders in the back of the base who just mine and then..... just mine some more)
     
  19. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    Tech and economy will have to be clearly balanced and the doors, while I already saw them and had speculations, it sounds, well, interesting, like you'll have multiple players, almost as if making the game 3d while 2d.

    I could see shit getting good really fast this way but tech would really need balance and we'd have to phase out letting newbs play more and fucking more.
     
    SARGRA13 likes this.
  20. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
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    I listed the classes as Geti told me in IRC (or you could just go to his deivantart page)
    kag__classes_11_4_12_by_forsakengeti-d4vulxb.png
    1. Woodcutter
    2. Scout
    3. Mountaineer
    4. Thief
    5. Archer
    6. Sapper
    7. Peasant
    8. Carpenter
    9. Mechanic
    10. Architect
    11. Mason
    12. Blacksmith
    13. Miner
    14. Recruit
    15. Pikeman
    16. Lancer
    17. Knight
    18. Barbarian
    Geti: barbarian looks better now that his pants aren't so fat, much better. Also the lance works pretty well into the design now that you added it.
     
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