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Dev Blog Changes large and small

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Apr 11, 2012.

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  1. keyofdoor

    keyofdoor Bison Rider

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    679
    Yay. I don't like steampunk when it's in the wrong era, but what will mechanisms be based on? Levers and pullies?
     
  2. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    3,730
    Aye. And wind/water power.

    You messed up the quote tags fwiw ;)
     
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  3. NEMS

    NEMS Arsonist

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    85
    The future of KAG is so promising.
     
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  4. TheFilip

    TheFilip Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    204
    We could always implement Leonardo Da Vinci's flying machines.
    Doesn't ruin the art-style, and adds a bit of variety.

    And, obviously, to build such awesome machines we would need one of those economy classes (engineer, or something like that) so that would give people another reason to go for the economy, instead of the usual thief, archer, warrior.
     
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  5. shai-hulud

    shai-hulud Shipwright

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    13
    I.... came back just to say that I am kind of fond of early scientific/industrial era technology like boiler engines, leyden jars, and alchemy. Those are probably not the era you are going for (1700s) though.
     
  6. Jamburglar

    Jamburglar Horde Gibber

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    239
    Steampunk/Victorian an Renaissance era technology is cool as shit, but it's not for KAG. Flying machines? Nah, keep it medieval.
     
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    We're uh, not basing KAG on reality but if we were it'd be more like pre-1400s. There might be flying machines and things just because they're excellent gameplay wise and mean everyone's not stuck to the ground (relatively).
     
  8. Worm

    Worm Derpship Commander Donator

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    546
    @Geti:
    What will be next bigger update that will implement most of things(like Workshop update or Zombie Fortress)?
     
  9. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    We'll know once it's done :) We've still got to get Zombies Multiplayer done though.
     
  10. goodyman8

    goodyman8 Bison Rider

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    1,025
    I know this game is way from being done but will we be able to mess around with more scripts once the big stuff rolls in?
    So that we could make our own monsters for Overworld and create custom items as we see fit.
    Kinda like Soldat and Counter strike 2D where people put stuff in as they see fit/fun.
    I for one would love making giant monsters and put them in an Arena map to face off 4 sorry souls.
     
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  11. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    2,508
    :eek:

    ...

    SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X3!!!:heart:

     
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  12. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    2,554
    I look at KAG like the old school Final Fantasy worlds... Minus magic users. Airships, bison to ride upon, worlds to plunder...
     
  13. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

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    1,958
    Steampunk is overrated.
     
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  14. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    2,508
    Steampunk? Probably. Airships? Never!
     
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  15. Wonkyth

    Wonkyth More precious than carbuncles! Donator Tester

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    1,350
    /me does the "Zeppelin" dance! ^_____________... ..._^
     
  16. keyofdoor

    keyofdoor Bison Rider

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    679
    Before you sacrifice Wonkyth for Geti/Airships make sure to add human souls and put them into a transmutation circle, to make a Philosophers Stone.
    I think flying creatures should be used as airships, you could train/upgrade them for abilities and scimmet.
     
  17. Wonkyth

    Wonkyth More precious than carbuncles! Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,350
    You seen my pet Greg? His name is Jimmy! :D (geddit?)
     
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  18. Loner

    Loner Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    2
    10 pages of comments - tl;dr, so I apologise if some things in my post have already been mentioned or are irrelevant or plain wrong. I'd like to simply sum up my experience with KAG so far, as well as my thoughts on what you've wrote about future changes in KAG.



    I enjoy KAG, it's a great game with a lot of freedom and a lot of unpredictability. However my enjoyment of it has been hindered by some of the changes that took place since the first public release (as well as some that were in the game all along). The worst one are the popup "pie menus".

    I've mentioned this before (back when inventory management in KAG was just an idea), and now that my fears have become reality, I'll say this again: the new pop-up menus are a tedious way to perform simple tasks - picking up items, dropping items, throwing items and interacting with objects. Such trivial tasks should not require any menus, especially in a fast-paced game such as KAG. You've said "naww, it'll be really easy" (or something along the lines), but look at what happened when TotalBiscuit did a "WTF is..." of KAG.

    Here's how I think it should be done:

    - Picking up items.
    Hover over an item, press button. Done.
    I realize that it's not that easy. Items overlap and are hard to see on the ground. Solution? How about a "highlight items" button like in Diablo and similar games? You hold a button, and item names pop up on the screen. You click the name - you pick up that item. So we get this: hold button, hover over a name, left click. Done. It has worked fine in other fast-paced games, it should work just fine in KAG without having to navigate popup menus with small or confusing icons that cover the entire screen.

    - Dropping and throwing items.
    Select an item in your inventory, press button. Done.
    You could use number keys (or other keys) to select items in different inventory slots + a dedicated "drop item" button. Alternatively, you could use mouse to drag-n-drop items from your inventory and into the world. Much easier and faster than pie menus IMHO.

    - Interacting with objects.
    Approach an object, press button. Done.
    Once again, it should not be any more complicated than that. "But then how do I choose what exactly I want to do with, let's say, a catapult?" - you may ask. How about using "hot spots" on objects that can be interacted in multiple ways? With mouse you could hover over a specific part of the catapult and interact with that. Click on the pile of rocks - resupply catapult. Click on the back of the catapult - operate the catapult. Click on the "cup" - load yourself into the catapult. Drag an item from your inventory onto the catapult - load that item into the catapult. Similar effect could be achieved by moving your character to the appropriate side of the catapult and pressing "use" key. For example, loading yourself into the catapult could be performed by jumping and pressing "E" near the top of the catapult.
    For newcomers who don't know what "hot spots" different objects might have - "highlight items" button could also highlight hot spots by displaying their names.


    -----------

    Interdependency:
    Please be very careful with this one. It's a double-edged sword. It could make teamwork very deep and complicated, but will also require the level of communication between players that is very hard to achieve on public servers or without VOIP. Leave some room for both hardcore clan players with VIOP, as well as random pubbers who just want to play casually.
    You've said that builders aren't required on the frontlines, but I've often found myself calling out for someone to build a ladder or to destroy a 1-block-thick wall that an enemy builder plunked down in less than a second. That's what made my experience in KAG most miserable, even though everything else was enjoyable.

    And once again, don't make people go through a complicated process to complete a simple task.
    I'll use an example from Battlefield 3: Recons can have a device called SOFLAM. When you place it on the ground - it laser-designates vehicles in their line of sight. Engineers have Javelins that are most effective against laser-designated targets. But guess what? Almost nobody uses SOFLAMs and Javelins simply because there's very small chance that right people will be in the right place, at the right time, with the right tools AND alive.
    Don't let the same thing happen to KAG classes. Make classes self-sufficient enough to perform basic tasks (tasks that occur most often in the game - fighting an enemy, getting out of/across pits, building simple structures, getting resources), but require teamwork for something much more significant (collapsing a thick wall, building an archer tower, making a spike trap, being a member of a ballista squad).
    In your example of lancer, for instance - there's no need to make him completely uncapable of fighting if he doesn't have a horse. He could be effective in one way without a horse, and effective in a completely different way with a horse - without a horse he could just be a different version of a knight (longer reach but slower), while on a horse he could pummel through multiple enemies in a line, but as you've said, he would have to rely on builders to make a proper path for a horse (and maybe even find the horse too).
    -----------

    To sum it up:
    Take a good look at what KAG is now. Note things that make KAG fun (combat, building, destroying, tactics) and things that are not as fun but are still part of the gameplay (inventory management, resource gathering, taking resources to where they're needed, getting stuck in pits). Then think of a way to either make them fun, or to minimize the time player spends doing them. "Mining minigame" is a step in the right direction, and I'm hoping you guys will improving the other aspects of the game, making fun things more fun, and frustrating things less frustrating.


    In the end all that is just my, a casual player's opinion and the way the game makes me feel, but it's all based on long-term experience and observations from many other games, so I'm hoping you'll take my words into consideration. Good luck and keep up the great work. :)
     
  19. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    The inventory management and object interaction ingame at the moment is crap - thats why we want to change it. Your "Hotspots" for interaction and "click item to pickup while holding some highlight key" is exactly what we're planning. Same for dropping stuff (though it'd likely be click+drag out of inventory not 2 clicks to save even more time and prevent misclick rage).

    I dont have time to address the rest of it now, but note that the current classes wont be going anywhere in classic, and that we're going to try to ensure that its fun to play all classes even without reliable team-mates, just that none of them can do anything too powerful without some aid.
     
  20. Ostricheggs

    Ostricheggs Shipwright

    Messages:
    120
    That would make resource gathering pretty darn fast and easy. Of course, only like 3 guys actually gather dropped resources, so I guess it doesn't matter in the end
     
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