Class Bawww/Argument thread

I'm just going to make a mod that combines the archer and the knight into one evolved class.

And then I'm just going to cata the shit out of that class with builder.

Just to prove the point that balance is everything in this game, and nothing is truly OP.

 

If everything was balanced then we would be using the same sort of strategy everytime and how fast we could do that strategy . . . Games need a little bit of unbalance to make things fun and too always make sure that it's not the same plan every time.
The game is unbalanced in the wrong way, and the main reason for this is because combat is random and glitchy, this game is broken in it's main part COMBAT and I'm sure a lot of you have noticed this.

on topic: :< I'm not mad at it, we would have to test this (If it gets in the game)

 

@Contrary: I'd like to hear how is it that you consider knights underpowered. I'd like to hear some valid arguments as to why consider that, they do have plenty of tools that which used right can gain them victory. I'm also aware that some are glitchy but I don't really see knights complain when they can shield bash spam a guy to the point that they can't crap (except unless it's in a knight duel), be able to catch up to all other units that jump down the lower levels to escape simply because they can glide and catch up to all others with out taking fall damage and of course have bombs that instant kill all who aren't knights that can shield.

Also... "massed charge shot spam + worker support" you can actually shield that well enough if you have 3-4 knights all shielding and staying close together, whether moving towards the tower or attempting to cover the builder so you can give him free time dig in to the tower. Using bombs can also work if you lack a builder. A good counter for the "mass charge shot spam + worker support" (I presume you mean in a tower) would also be a cata inside a tower with front and above fortifications with 2-3 knights shielding the 3 square opening used to fire the rocks through so archers can't snipe. From there it's a matter of how good your aim is and how much stone you have.

I think there's always a way to deal with something if you try and find a solution (and if you have teammates that actually listen). Unless of course you meant "massed charged shot spam + worker support" vs a bunch of knights, then yes, they would get slaughtered then again I'd find that normal. If archers use builders to keep a position then It's only normal for a knights to require builder support to break that tower.

The only reason you seem to consider Archer's OP is because most archers go for the synergy shots, which prove highly efficient and requires almost no communication between two archers, I know because I've done it by simply taking note of my teammates target and simply shooting the same time as him. Simple and efficient. Funny... I'm pretty sure you could do the same as a knight, charge two at a time and gang up on one guy. Either double charged slash or one simply shield bashes the shit out of the guy while the other jabs him.

What happened to bomb jumps? Or hells, even throwing the damn bomb at the tower to make the archers explode. Or better yet... distract the archers with the knights and have two of your own synergy shoot them. Countless possibilities if you stay and think and not charge off... only as a knight... with no support... yeah, that's like asking an "arrow to the knee" joke right there. >.>

And I actually consider archers fun, I like to play with one I wish they had more tools aswell but please... please don't say that knights are underpowered after a whole lot of them charge like idiots in to an arrow volley or chase an archer up a tree and instead of using the bomb they have to kill him jab at the three, get shot and die (happened a lot lately).

Lemme correct you on that one... "(though again, they have the largest quantity of and most interesting AND most deadly and efficient tools that no other class has)."

There.

Now the above is correct and portrays knights better.

And please don't tell me that the ability to shield any damage (even bombs), fall from heights that would kill other classes, have a bombs that instant kills everything else oh and of course the ability to bomb jump over the battlefield or even towers (if lucky).

Interesting? Check.

Lethal? Check.

Efficient? Only if you know how and when to use those abilities but that's really the players fault isn't it? :p

Sorry... but, I can't really see as the knight being an underpowered class with just some ~interesting tools/abilities~ (seriously, you make it sound as if their abilities are to emote tea bags on a corpse or something and not the bombs and shield they have >.>) when all of their tools pretty much help them kill and stay alive in the heat of combat.

Unless of course you dream of going all "Rambo" and taking on everything alone like those "massed charge shot spam + worker support". Now that would be silly. :p

 

Knights have to deal through a lot of shit because they are a melee class there are so many chances of failing to do the right thing and half the time it's not your fault.

Archers on the other hand don't have to deal with it and can be the safest and most effective class, it's your own fault is you don't notice a knight with a bomb in his/her hand or if you don't see someone flying through the air for fucks sake.

There is so many counters for archers to use against knights, sometimes they don't even have to use arrows. Knights have the bomb which can be easily avoided by someone who thinks they should avoid it like a normal person.

And if your complaining about bomb jumping, build a tower to counter it. Half the time the knights fail to do the damn jump, forgot to mention the fact of getting shot or hitting a wall is quite high too.

I agree that one archer is beyond useless, but when you get more then two you can stop a entire army in certain situations.

Other then bombs, knights have a really no attacks against archers, even the bomb jump which in earlier builds insta-killed people if you landed on them, now it hardly does any damage any more, except to the knight.

I have also complained about how dangerous bombs are to your team compared to arrows in some other discussion, you could have five archers on top of a tower spamming arrows, but having five knights on top of a tower trying to bomb jump or throwing bombs down below is dangerous, bomb jumping with more then one person in a spot is almost impossible, if someone stuffs up during a bomb throw it could kill a entire team of players and could but a large hole on a tower.

Bombs cost more and are useless and dangerous if you don't know how to use the. arrows are safe and only hurt the enemy.

Archers are the weakest thing on kag if they don't have a tree a building or a team mate, but when they have that they are the most annoying and hardest thing to kill, If your pissing off ten knights so they are only trying to attack you then your doing your job as a archer right.

The only real thing I think archers are OP at is when they are fighting vertically.

 

Knights are OP. Period. Sorry but it's just true. idk why we have kids that run the the front line without a builder. Sit in no-man's land and then get pelted with arrows and say "Archer is so OP!". You don't see the builder or archer class with a shield or a ratnged attack that crumbles buildings and insta gibbeles enemies. They can fly stack to make bridges, etc. Just because the archer has to sit in a tower to get it's kills doesn't mean he's OP, would you go out into that bomb-fest when you have around 10 seconds to live? Hell no. Tunnelers can be defeated easily, bridges and even people carving through your wall. Easy fixes for my 20 coin hand nuke.

Unless you have a team, like I had, of stupid fucking knights that literally just run forward only to get slashed to death and repeat, this game has become about camping in towers. Bombs don't help, and neither would back peddling.

Builder is my favorite class by far cause at least I can put a wall between myself and the bullshit. second is the knight and third being archer. If I hear another person say "OMG archer so OP" , I'm going to blow up. The archer has the least going for it in terms of skills and usefulness. If I played archer I'd sit in a tower all day long too. Why? cause it's the smart thing to do after you've cut/bought 40 coins worth of arrows.

The whole point isn't archer vs. knight. The knight isn't supposed to have a ranged attack. He's supposed to work with the builder to get to where the archers are at (Teamwork). But that nearly impossible when the center is like a mine field. Tunneling is really the only way to counter this.

And no if you're any good at throwing bombs, the other person doesn't have a chance in hell of getting away.

 

The knight isn't meant to have a range attack -_- what am I meant to do when a archer is in a tree , get five of my buddies and hit the trees randomly until the archer drops and towers what Am I meant to do with them, hit the tower with my face until it cracks. The only ranged attack a knight has is a bomb, A bomb is timed and can easily be avoided because it's timed. You have three seconds to move away from that bomb, and if you were a smart archer you wouldn't be anywhere near that knight in the beginning. If your in a tower you have three seconds to get out of the doors and get inside the tower.
If your complaining about bombs then you have horrible timing and positioning, the radius was even nerfed a few builds ago so that people would stop complaining.

There is only a few times when you can't avoid a bomb, same with arrows.

 

So you just encourage the campfest play style? If you light a bomb and archers run away, isn't that still good? Because now they're not around to hit you. Throwing bombs with skill isn't very hard at all. The least you could do is slight damage to an enemy or at least some damage to the wall of a building. There are way too many people to look at for you to constantly retreat when seeing a bomb. No one should have that type of attack. Especially when only they can shield from it, how does that make sense? If you had ever played the old version of the game, archers would actually go into the field and use trees instead of towers. The game was much more fluid and fast moving, so by you saying stay in the tower only adds to the problem.

But these last 6 or so posts are way off topic. is anyone really talking about back peddling anymore, cause I just want to see it applied to the knights.

 

BackPedalling? Excuse me while I log onto my Holy Pally and get that PvP gear on....

 

first of which build? I remember archers bothering to stun me so I could blow myself up or avoiding my bombs by jumping on me even when the bomb radius was bigger and still 1 hit death, these things are still possible, how does avoiding a knight equal retreating you could go forwards and bother someone else. If your in a tower and you see this timed thing of mass destruction coming at you it would be natural to use cover camping or no camping. How does bombs equal camping, bombs are anti-camping tools to make sure that you don't stay in the same place otherwise it will become a game of archer wars. knights hardly fight archers anyway because they are busy fighting other knights. Shielding against a bomb is hard when your trying to not to die. Knight combat is offensive and chaos, you have to get close to attack, while archers have the choice of both safety (defensive) and offensive styles because of their range.

Knight combat used to be better to you know they had faster attacks and were less broken and were vastly more OP then now, and that never effected the flow of game play.

 

Once again can we stay on topic? And yes Knights are OP, check your biases in at the door. You should of ended your post with: Sincerely, the Knight

 

I am the knight ^__^ But we both refuse that our opinion is right.
Check your biases at the door too ^__^
Also using the sentence *can we stay on topic* means you don't wont to discuss this any further, It's like saying I don't give a shit about what you think I'm right.

 

I'm not a knight or archer, I'm about as unbiased as it get ^.^. Have fun complaining about your hand cannon :)

 

I play all classes ^__^ and love arguments about unbalance.

Also "I'm about as unbiased as it gets" . . . you just said a load of biased stuff just like me.

My hand cannon is weak and easy to fail with :<

 

Saying stay on topic means hmm actually talking about what the thread is about, isn't it? Oh wait you don't get it because literally none of your posts have had any relevance other than you swooping in to give your two cents on balancing issues. Actually add to the thread and give some content rather than spamming up the wall. :p

Back to backpedaling. What if instead of that, you had like a little bit of a walk -jog-run feature. Where you had to continue in a direction to build up full speed, that way knights could really charge into you.

 

Jumpout has the only post that is even remotely on-topic on this page so far. If you two are going to consistently argue about which class is 'OP' and ignore the subject of this thread, take it to PMs.

ON TOPIC:
I have mixed feelings about slowing down the backwards running speed. It would definitely help put an end to RTDM stalemates, and it would also discourage jab-spamming knights that don't let you get close to them. What I don't like about it is the decreased situational awareness. Players revolted when the far-zoom view was removed, and this makes me think of that.

EDIT: Night_Horde replied with something slightly on-topic while I was typing this out.

I can't see a walk/jog/run feature being implemented without some sort of major changes to momentum physics in KAG, or at the very least, a stamina system (that is, if the running speed is faster than the current movement speed in KAG.)

 

I would Like to take it to the PM :< but the person I'm arguing against would refuse.

We have both done nothing to contribute to this thread and yet he thinks It's okay to say that I'm the one being the problem.
"Actually add to the thread and give some content rather than spamming up the wall" would you stop spamming this discussion, you are just as worse then me.

 

I mean it already has like a small feature where you need to take like a step to get to full speed. Maybe instead just have it ake like 3 blocks to get up to full speed. Not sure how it would affect other aspects though.

Not feeding the trolls today.

 

Good choice of ignoring me, but adding a smart remark is worse ^__^ would you like me to stop?

 

I think he just did.

What's gonna work? Teeeam work. What's gonna work? Teeeam work. Dude, go in with a few knights to guard you. Teamwork is key. Besides, builders hit faster than knights. All you have to have to play builder is the building skill, and know when to time your attacks. I've taken out several newbie knights as a builder just by swinging my hammer when they weren't shielding.

Because they're busy lugging around whole stacks of materials. Knights aren't OP, archers are, because Knights have more disadvantages than advantages. Although the advantages are good, think about a knight holding a keg that IS NOT LIT YET, and an archer getting an instantkill. Plus, most people that play the archer class are campers.

That's just it. THEY'RE ALWAYS IN GROUPS. :(

 

You literally didn't think into a thing I said. Plus this is way too far away from the thread. Sorry to logically say the Knight class is OP instead of whining and trying to defend it lol. Sincerely, a buidler.