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Closed sourced mods

Discussion in 'Requests' started by Aphelion, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    I request the ability to make mods closed source.

    @Geti
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    bunnie likes this.
  2. vik

    vik THD Team THD Team Tester

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    That's pretty hard, if you want people to play your mod they HAVE to download it and have the files in their computer, and if they are in their computer, they can get to them no matter how hard you make it.

    EDIT: Or did you mean licensing?
     
  3. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

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    That's besides the point, having written an entire engine similar to kags, using the same libraries you can do this although it requires you to download the mod everytime you join. It can be stored in ram. And fetching those files properly from ram isn't exactly easy. I don't know how terribly hard it is in kags instance because of the sheer number of files. But it is certainly possible. (Like I said saying this coming from having written a system almost identical)
     
  4. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    It is not hard. Files could be placed into a password protected zip once downloaded (there are endless other possibilities).

    That way they cannot get to them.


    I'm not very familiar with C++ (Java person), therefore i do not know if it is possible or not, but perhaps the files could be downloaded into memory rather than physically.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  5. vik

    vik THD Team THD Team Tester

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    C++ is really low-level you can do pretty much everything
     
  6. Downburst

    Downburst Mindblown Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    moved.
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  7. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    What would the appeal of closed sourced mods be? I thought the goal was open-source so that the community could take dead mods and expand on them. If people start making closed source mods, then when they leave we can't use their work as a stepping stone to improve.
     
    Blubahub, Noburu and Rayne like this.
  8. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    The whole "leaving" thing is stupid. If a modder wants to release something they can. Look at the big Viridi Militis project, all the time spent and someone can just get their files and copy them.

    Modders don't want their hard work stolen or copied. Think about the modders.
     
    bunnie likes this.
  9. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    Okay, I get where you're coming from, but now remember in alpha KAG where when you wanted to change something you couldn't, when something crashed you couldn't find it and fix it yourself?

    I'm not saying it's a bad idea you have, I'm just saying that there are negatives to it, and that it will probably be too difficult (time consuming) an undertaking to expect the devs to take any time soon at all.
     
  10. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
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    And then what? Release it as their own work? Not anywhere on these forums. Maybe on a smaller site, which won't get them shit for exposure anyway. Do that here and everyone will shun them forever (And if they release on a smaller site and get found out, same story). What if they copy the files and just look at them for reference? Is that bad? I think that's good, they can see how a solid mod works and use it as an example to code their own.

    I've been dealing with this argument in the fire emblem fandom for years. The reason the FE fandom is so stagnant is because everyone protects their work and then doesn't help the newbies. There's a huge elitism element that comes into play, as in "I learned the hard way, so you have to also or go fuck yourself" which makes new users feel unwelcome. Eventually you only have the top tier coders (Who eventually leave due to stagnation in the community) and newbies who know almost nothing (Who leave quickly because of the stagnation in the community).

    Closed sourcing everything is an ancient model from the 90's and early 00's that kills off communities and stops creative forward thinking. That's why the majority of people make their stuff open source, so others can look through it and say "wow this looks useful, maybe I can improve it" or "oh hey I looked at this guy's code and he's hiding a virus!" or "I should tell this guy that the methods he's using are really inefficient and wasteful and he can improve by doing X".

    By the way, on the note of the FE fandom, they never make big advances because every new person has to start from square zero. If you work off an existing project you can improve it and make it better, but if you work off nothing you have to take a period of time just to catch up to the last great project, and by then any long amount of time can have passed. Many modders that had great potential left because of this elitism and I really don't want to see that in the kag community.
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  11. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    What might people do? Get your files and run a server using your mod. There should be an option, to make mods closed source.

    Don't be so against the option to make mods closed source. I should be able to if i want to.
     
  12. Downburst

    Downburst Mindblown Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    You are not even allowed to mod KAG in a commercial way according to the Terms and Conditions.

    So give me 1 reason it's bad that people play your mod.


    edit: asked devs about it and it's allowed to use KAG in a commercial way. At least to some level.
     
  13. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
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    So... if someone puts your mod on a server you don't have to pay for... that's bad? It's like getting a free server for your mod.

    There are only two ways this could be bad.
    1. They claim credit for your mod. That's wrong indeed. I'd post a complain on the forum about it asap if that were the case and personally lobby to get them banned.
    2. People come on the server and give critique/praise for the mod but you don't hear it so it's missed critique/praise.

    If the option to get a closed source was made, I wouldn't complain, but just watch as slowly everyone gravitates towards closed source and when my prediction about elitism and stagnation comes through, I'll have the last "chuckle" (In a sad ironic way, not a good "haha I win" sort of chuckle.)
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  14. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    ??

    Exactly my problem. There's nothing wrong with the idea of having the option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    Guitrz and Klokinator like this.
  15. master4523

    master4523 Masterful KAG Guard Global Moderator Tester
    1. PumpkinStars - [Pk#] - Inactive

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    Storing your scripts in the ram or encrypting them won't prevent people from stealing them, it will just slow the process down for a few days until they manage to create a tool to get the scripts. Not worth adding that kind of security.
    Even pre-compiled angelscript bytecode isn't secure, and can be easily decompiled.
    I'm afraid there's no easy way to protect your mods
     
  16. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    It'll prevent most people.
     
    norill likes this.
  17. JoshTG

    JoshTG Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    If you don't want others to have it don't release it to the public
     
  18. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    You people (those who do not mod) do not understand.
     
  19. Downburst

    Downburst Mindblown Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    Yes we don't, so please explain it to us.
    The only reason I see for closed mods right now is either a way to cover that you stole code yourself or to hide the crappy coding you've done.
     
  20. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
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    Uhm, yeah... I've already stated the reason.

    Anyone can just steal any mod and claim it's theirs/draw players away from the true server/copy/steal code. Again, it would be optional to the modder.

    Oh, and it's nice to know that a lot of people think I keep stealing code. I'm a capable programmer, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016