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Community Fixes Inbound

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    A technical term would be quasi-transitivity, and the technical problem is called the heap problem. At what point is a pile big enough to be a heap? At which point is a heap small enough to be a pile? Usually there is a bit of overlap between the two, such that depending where you are coming from, your heap would be a pile if you were going the opposite direction at that point, until it is most certainly large enough or small to be qualified as the other.
     
    Sir_Walter and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  2. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    Bomb arrows are the best thing about archer. Please don't ruin my life.
     
    Bint and Blue_Tiger like this.
  3. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Bomb arrows are the most ridiculous shit added to the archer: "lets give them a bomb that's more powerful than 3 regular bombs and is easier to aim!!!" My changes have them dealing just as much damage to a door, just less radius to the tile damage. It doesn't make any sense that you can literally delete chunks of blocks with an easy to aim item like the bomb arrow.

    Sorry, I'd rather have a fun and balanced game rather than cater to players who refuse to change, and besides it's for a rebalance mod, not the vanilla game. Geti would never add in these changes because of players who only care about their own enjoyment rather than the betterment of the game for all.
     
  4. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    It is balanced. It costs 50g which is equal to two bombs (25g * 2 = 50g). With bombs you can "insta-kill" multiple enemies so the bomb itself gives you a lot of money. Bomb arrows are often used for breaking through massive forts and when the server is not so crowded it can be (with some skillz) used to get access to the enemies' flag. Bomb arrows need a lot of skills and often some teamwork. Also, it is easier for knights to get gold than archers. There is a thing that is called "builder" which can repair "chunks of blocks".
     
    CowboyDan likes this.
  5. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    Yes, arrows you can shoot from half way across the map, and tunnel through walls with no real problems destroying upwards of 100 stone per shot, and your main problem is the gated cost for it? 25c bombs would fucking love to be able to destroy a stone door outright, let alone a workshop as efficiently as a bomb arrow. Bomb arrows have a similar capacity for killing multiple people as bombs, so I see a false differentiation here. I just see a siege engine with less than half of the investment to get away with it.

    I don't see knights utilise bombs as heavily as archers, nor the binders full of corpses, nor dosh that you supposedly get from it. I personally don't use bombs because 25c is too much for them, hyper mobility's been good for me in only that respect.

    As far as the miraculous class that can instantly, and always repair gaping holes in their fortress: If and when three seconds become two minutes, and they have the resources on hand. Thick walls end up becoming their own liability, nearing the point of surrender, when it comes to repairs.
     
  6. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    not to mention if you shoot when people are in a door, bomb arrows destroy all open doors, so you can end up losing 400, or more stone in one shot :/
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  7. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    So, you want to make bomb arrows cost double the price of bombs, still only able to insta-kill other archers and only destroy one block of stone per shot.

    Well, if this happens, you'll only see more of my water arrows :rekt:.
     
    GreyHCK likes this.
  8. SlayerSean

    SlayerSean FYI: it's pronounced "seen"

    Messages:
    191
    Always found it irritating that a single bomb arrow could smash through anywhere up to three (if you have damn good aim and the hole is just right) layers of blocks, yet a single bomb destroys only the block it lands directly on. I swear, when you have a gap, a stone block, then a gap (vertically), you can throw 4 bombs at it and that single block won't break, but a single bomb arrow would break that block and two layers of backwall behind it. But I would probably find it irritating (at first) if bomb arrows were just like bombs, because I'm so used to their super-powered nature ::P:
     
  9. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    Probably make water a knight exclusive much like fire is an archer exclusive. Again, it's an issue of stun lock, and knights can't compare to a dedicated archer.
     
  10. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Actually no the price would decrease to 30-40, because they're not as powerful, but thanks for trying to make me look incompetent, I appreciate it.
    The point of the rebalance is to aid said thing called "builder", see my previous post, nobody wants to build when it means spending X amount of time for someone to destroy it in X/2 time.

    Not sure I understand how you think the meager price increase makes it balanced, it's a ranged attack that can destroy upwards of 400 stone in one shot. Sure, knight bombs are stronger in pure player damage, but they don't offer the safety or game ending abilities bomb arrows do. Coin earning is entirely a moot-point when you can go builder and spam platforms for all the dosh you could ever want, this isn't even considering the coin-farming potential archer has. By shooting enemy siege over and over you can earn ridiculous amounts of money with barely any effort involved(let's face it, your cata is almost always open to rogue arrows).

    Dunno how point and release mouse button to release nuke is skillful, but if you say so.

    I actually quite like water arrows with archers, they can be annoying, but it's really hard to score a kill on a knight with it. It requires either 1) teamwork or 2) great timing to make the knight mess up(bombjumps, bombs in hand, kegs). Water bombs on knight, once you learn to use them, it's almost like having a free kill item.
     
    Sir_Walter and Dargona1018 like this.
  11. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    skillz

    WTF would be the point of it? Will archers be able bomb arrow jump?
     
    Fuzzle and Blue_Tiger like this.
  12. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    They can precision bomb shit from half way across the damn map without doing as much damage as a bomb ballista.
     
  13. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    lol.

    Oh, okay, let me rephrase it then :).

    So, you want to make bomb arrows cost more than bombs, deal less damage to enemy players, unable to bomb jump on and deal insignificant damage to structures?

    Actually, it takes a very long time to farm 150 coins to get 3 bomb arrows (generally takes at least 3 bomb arrows to get to a flag or through a tower) compared to the 10-20 stone you'll need to block it back up again, and maybe 100-200 stone you'd need to completely repair it.

    I don't know what version of KAG you've been playing.

    Because they are two weapons used for different objectives. Plus, who is safer? A 4-heart knight who has a shield or a 2-heart archer that can be one-banged by just about every attack in the game?

    Competely forgetting you have to first collect the wood in the first place, wood which the other team could actually spend on instantly rebuilding the flag base. This also doesn't take into account that when you go to builder-farm coins, your team is a man down and will likely give the enemy team just as many coins as you gain from it.

    Because people use siege.

    1. You've got to get the bomb arrows in the first place, this means not buying water and getting a lot of damage, etc.
    2. You've got to get into a position where you can actually shoot the bomb arrows. You're not going to get there without supporting your team, and when carrying 3 bomb arrows, you can't carry water. If you're camping at the back of your base, or even a little outside the battle, you're not assisting your team, and I don't know if they'd win without archers. And if you go into the battle, you run the risk of a random bomb coming and reking you.
    3. Then you've got to shoot them at a decent place, this is pretty easy.
    4. But you've also got to time when there is no enemies, no builder inside to instantly repair, and when your team is ready to attack.

    Finally something I agree with.
     
    Verzuvius and Fuzzle like this.
  14. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    If you hadn't told me this, then I wouldn't think you've ever played as archer. :rollseyes:
     
  15. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    I like how Verz and Malt who, if I will, "main" archer, are saying that it's hard to get 150 coins, then get up to the front, and then shoot it. Either you guys have become incompetent recently, or you guys are incredibly exaggerating how hard it is to do such things.

    Even Oodle, who was THE BEST archer for quite a while, thought that Bomb arrows were ridiculous, to the point of making a thread about it.
    If you have a need for Bomb arrows, you aren't fending them off, but are already fighting forward, or are at a standstill in the middle of the map.
    So, one measly archer going back to base and quickly farm some coins (which is MUCH easier than what Rayne said, but I won't reveal my secrets for more abuse). In the time it takes you to place/repair with that amount, your next resupply is ready, rinse, repeat.

    So, there you go, got 1-3 bomb-arrows. You can destroy 3-4 layers quite easily, at a distance that is more than enough to not get hit my a stray bomb or arrow. Now, remember, most bases go high instead of thick, because thick takes much more resources, and leaves you overwhelmed by initial rush.
    With that said, since no one expands forward, most bases are about 2-3 thick, with minimal backwall (or 2 thick with a bit more backwall). Most base designs is a box around the flag, and then the tower straight up.
    With 3 bomb-arrows, you hit at the base of the tower (you barely need any height), and you can take out 3-4 layers, which almost always takes care of the tower, which crashes down, damaging both their base (any overhangs and even just the tower itself) and their defenses overall.
    You then can easily get a builder forward (there should be one already at base with resources, or one building up mid), break into their flag whilst your knights go into their base, with the archers hanging back picking off knights or switching to knight. Spawn-camping, there ya go, you won.

    Is it truly fair that ONE single person can take a minute outta their day to farm for coins, then go to the front and destroy them? Nonetheless when more than one person brings bomb arrows.

    And that's just with farming for coins, if you guys are so good, you'll get at least 50 coins with just battling, maybe buying arrows for sustain, so 40 coins profit.
     
  16. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
  17. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    Well I guess if everyone wants to nerf the boulder so badly and soon I must abuse it until the end. RIP boulder, you were the only thing that understood me.

    :boulder::QQ::boulder:
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  18. kittycity

    kittycity Bison Rider

    Messages:
    256
    look back at the spike .... the spike was my bested friend... #bringbackmyspike :oops:

    also plz dont nerf bouldersssssssss
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    PUNK123 likes this.
  19. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    B-b-but Anon . . .
    What was I? A lowly slave to love?

    EDIT: Yea, that was offtopic, wait a sec while I find something relevant.

    I'm actually glad that Food Stacking is no longer a thing. It's a sorta cheap way to play (@Humblar_Tabulu , EpicBurgerOfTheAges), and stacking made it more so.
     
  20. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    ive had a UI problem for the longest time: the window does not capture the mouse, either windowed or fullscreen, and clicking offscreen totally ruins combat

    i cant find anything on the forums about this, can it be fixed manually?
     
    BlueLuigi and hierbo like this.