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Cooldown on Jabs

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by kodysch, Feb 23, 2015.

Mods: Rainbows
  1. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    Not gonna lie most of my kills are from me slash surfing when I get the chance. It's the strongest possible attack of knight combat because it involves velocity and slashes. It's not the hardest thing to do except when dodging jabs, but you certainly have a point that the combat isn't very intuitive. It is still slightly better than mindlessly clicking though. And I don't think anyone can argue that new players use a lot of thought when jabbing, they jab because it's the only thing they know how to do.
     
    blackjoker77777 and Rayne like this.
  2. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    This is one of the main problems with knight combat, slashing is extremely powerful, so to compensate, jabs need to be powerful as well to be able to compete at all, this is what leads to jab spamming actually being viable. Not saying that this is proper balance, as it is not, but this is powercreep in it's truest form.

    "X is really strong, how can we fix this?"

    "HEY! I have an idea, instead of properly balancing X, lets make Y powerful too, to be able to counter X!"

    "!!! GREAT IDEA!!!"

    EDIT: As for newer players, someone will always be there to spam mindless attacks, but with a proper rock-paper-scissors system they're just opening themselves up, using only rock will get you trapped by paper you know.
     
    hierbo likes this.
  3. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    When you jab a shield, it should always stun and for long enough to counter jab. Jabs that do connect should actually stun and not turn slashes into jabs. Increase the risk and increase the rewards and you get an attack that is effective when used right, less effective when not used correctly.
     
    swiggityswooty likes this.
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Re: raw cooldown on jabs - no. Knight combat has enough tiny meters involved at the moment without introducing some sort of stamina mechanic behind the whole thing. That fits well in something like dark souls, but noammo.ogg in KAG when doing free abilities? give me a break.

    Re: longer stuns - maybe, everything related to stuns has net us complaints so far though :) see: water, shield bashing, fall stuns, drowning, jabs doing a mini-stun, the complaints here about slash + jab being viable because of the jab stun...

    Re: slash+jab combo - we could increase knockback on slashes perhaps but I'm kind of concerned what it'd do to double-slash and I'm sure we'd see more knights going to space as a result. That said we've got a good stun+knockback mechanic going in TR so it might be worth a shot. Reducing the stuns from slashes at ALL isn't possible without increasing the speed you double-slash at, because it's timed to hit a few ticks before the shield is up again.

    Re: slow jabs small number of ticks - they are only faster by two ticks than they were before! amazing how little fidelity you get with tight timing things at 30fps :/

    Re: "JAB SPAM OP" talk in general - go and try exclusively jabbing when you get close to anyone (no shield, no slash, no bombs) and see how you go. Anything else isn't jab spam, it's just jabbing, and you should learn play on this and other such things.
     
    Blue_Tiger and Rayne like this.
  5. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    The jabbing with the upward angled shield is a bit wonky. I was shielding at an angle and his jabs went right through my shield. Is that something that can be fixed?
     
    swiggityswooty likes this.
  6. Ozminer

    Ozminer Bison Rider

    Messages:
    124
    Latency, High ping nigaz will slip through (such as me auss vs ace @ChargingLocket @Tynite :rekt:)

    @TheDirtySwine Im sorry but you can't stop latency so the speed you can jab can be countered by taking Speed and smacking that right mouse button like ur scratching at ur skin for bugs
     
  7. Don't you dare ever use the words 'Ace' and tag ChargingLocket and Myself again. Don't have time for this shenanigans.
     
    Noburu, hierbo and Rayne like this.
  8. Mariox222

    Mariox222 Arsonist
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    54
    Any good game is easy and fun for noobs and hard for pros, or players that dedicate to it. Nerfing the jab spam will encourage new players to start using slash. But i dont see the problem of jabspam, just use right click
     
  9. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Bison Rider

    Messages:
    400
    thats what geti says
    thing is it won't work
     
    Ozminer, Asu, DatNobby and 2 others like this.
  10. tl;dr holding LMB is moar skillz than pressing LMB

    once again johny98 beats the mythical hero of KAG, Brad, age 18 dancing on that high ground while spamming 5 and 2. CAN THE EVIL JOHNY BE STOPPED???
     
    Darknighte9 and Noburu like this.
  11. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    That's not the only problem. If you're sheilding, he'll get stun for a little while. You need to jab back very quickly and that's way harder when you're lagging, while jabspamming is easier when you're lagging. Plus the enemy will keep jabspamming so you also need to sheild again properly, and if you're a bit lagging, again, it's really, really, really terrible. In a closed environnement it's even worse since you don't have enough space to retreat quickly for preparing a slash.
    Being against 2 "regular" enemies is easy if you're good, being against 2 jabspamming enemies is hard as heck even if you're good.

    ftfy
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  12. SlayerSean

    SlayerSean FYI: it's pronounced "seen"

    Messages:
    191
    Only time I ever have an issue with jab spamming is in enclosed spaces (e.g. you both fell in a pit). When in a pit, you can't back away and slash, all you can do is shield and wait for the stun. Usually when they get stunned though, and I jab them, they still get a jab in. Meaning we both lose 1 heart, and sometimes I end up losing 2 somehow because the shield doesn't go back up in time. So basically, jab spam is still effective even with the stun.

    However, that might just mean I have absolutely horrible timing with my jabs in those situations.
     
    Fernegulus likes this.
  13. Mariox222

    Mariox222 Arsonist
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    54
    To punish a jab spamer you need to be very quick, you have to predict when hes gonna stun himself.
    Also dont worry your not terrible, its hard thing to do.
    My advice is after the punishing jab dont shield again but keep jabing
     
  14. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Jabs tend to be stronger in cramped fighting areas, that's not a bad thing. I kind of like how the fight changes if you're both in a small pit. I don't know if you guys remember but before they added jabstun, pit fights like that consisted of one person holding shield while the other person repeatedly charged slashes. It was basically impossible for the shield guy to get out of that situation or do much of anything at all, it's much more fun like this.
     
  15. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    This is why you should rework the majority of the code to allow it to run on 60fps.
    But probably the biggest reason is that I would play the game again, and you practically can't say no to that.
     
  16. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    Eh, no. Now most games are running at 20-40 ticks per second. 60 would be insane, and you'd get slower framerate. Plus to have such a performance gain this would require threading and massive rewrites and the current KAG engine does not allow that.
     
    DatNobby likes this.
  17. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    1/10 for understanding of tickrates and framerate. (laughed at 60 tickrate being insane)
    1/10 for understanding of a joke

    F- see me after class
     
    Klokinator likes this.
  18. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    I perfectly know what those are. Allowing the game to use 60 fps while keeping the same tickrate would have no change on that, and higher tickrate will just make the game go slower on lower pcs since it would need more ticks to process = more cpu power = less for rendering.

    aw
     
  19. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Yeah, wont happen with this engine sadly.
     
Mods: Rainbows