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Dev version stuff

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FinDude, Jun 21, 2011.

Mods: Hella, Lieber, ParaLogia
  1. FinDude

    FinDude KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    123
    It's pretty great. Played for some time, frontline moved back and forth pretty nicely.
    I must've built like four outposts over the course of the game.

    It was especially satisfying to take advantage of poor engineering and take down a structure by destroying a single critical block.

    [​IMG]

    Some thoughts:

    -Obviously, arrows piercing the map
    -Bombs deal friendly fire to teammates as well
    -Catapult seems a bit weak now

    -Sometimes the catapult and outpost would be displaced from the blueprint's location
    -Outpost was messing with background tiles when people spawned
    -Gold tends to be lost with expiring bodies

    -Could not build at certain spots (one time it was blocking a 11/12 finished outpost, argh)
    -Doors sometimes failed to function (seemed to happen more in deforested* areas)
    On that note, forests make building pretty hard. Some faster way to deal with trees would be nice.

    -Spikes are hilarious, but the damage is sometimes a bit hard to predict.
    They're a bit hard to put to practical use. I want to be able to build enemy doors too.
    -Spikes ignore gravity/support
    -Brick background changes sprite if a door tile next to it is activated
    -So do spikes

    -Saw an occasional floating block
    -Ladders give more material when broken than they cost
    -Falling ladders deal a bit too much of damage to stuff like stone

    Can't think of anything more. Should start noting these things down as they occur.

    *Chopping a tree to a stump, replacing it with background bricks
     
    FinDude, Jun 21, 2011
    #1
  2. bilbs

    bilbs Guest

    You're tellin me. Collapsing an entire castle is SO fun.
    There's a massive need for background support blocks now. Which I think is the best part of the physics change.
     
    bilbs, Jun 21, 2011
    #2
  3. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Re: Bombs doing friendly fire - I prefer it this way. I guess it can be abused but once we have the armoury in that should curb bomb griefing. It means you can't spam bombs at your own builders to protect them.

    The spikes not needing support is a bug and is on the list of needed fixes.
    The outpost and tent both mess with background tiles when people spawn, I guess we'll need to look into that. I think it's to prevent people building tiles inside the enemy spawn -> preventing spawning.
     
    Geti, Jun 22, 2011
    #3
  4. vig

    vig KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    8
    EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE ABUSED WILL BE ABUSED. This is how one must think when developing a game. I don't know whether it is beyond comprehension or not but I believe that if I am capable of understanding this incredibly simple notion then anyone else would not find it difficult to do the same.
    I am referring to teammate bombing and spiking in particular. Constantly having to look out for teammate idiocy does not in any way add anything positive to the game unless one is specifically trying to do the exact opposite. The inability to get rid of spikes by anyone other than builders (+lucky bombs) is absolute shit considering that builders are not supposed to be those who are on the frontlines. The whole idea of spikes doing the same damage from different falling distances to all players is ridiculous and so is spiketrap's miniscule building cost. To be honest, I don't see a reason for deadly spikes to exist, if someone is desired dead then he/she will be attacked and killed by the enemy. Traps and the like should help with that, not do the killing for them.
    EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE ABUSED WILL BE ABUSED.

    You want to get from point A to point B but someone has set spike traps everywhere in your path-> your arrival is delayed or in worst case you die.

    You are minding your own business and suddenly are blown to pieces-> you die
    There are no good reasons, or rather no reasons for friendly fire on bombs to exist in the first place. As a matter of fact, as a player I would not want my life to depend on a monkey with bombs, especially if the monkey is on my own team. Blowing oneself up from bad bomb placement, sure, that is fair and justified. Teammate killing on the other hand is not.
     
    vig, Jun 23, 2011
    #4
  5. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    Why are you getting so excited, vig? Like Geti said, it'll be dealt with like other griefing.
     
    Contrary, Jun 23, 2011
    #5
  6. bilbs

    bilbs Guest

    Keep FF on bombs.
     
    bilbs, Jun 23, 2011
    #6
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    We're Planning on it.

    Vig: A) "I don't know whether it is beyond comprehension or not" sounds incredibly aloof. You're not the first person to think like that, in fact that notion is a large part of the reason DRM is so intrusive in modern AAA games. My philosophy with this is "Anyone abusing the game at the expense of others should be kicked out". We're having problems with the votekicking system but we're working on various ways of preventing abuse there -> preventing abuse everywhere.
    B) Knights can smash spikes, I'm not sure if archers can but they aren't intended as anti-materiel units anyway
    C) Builders on the frontlines is something we want to encourage - not on the front lines hitting people but on the front lines sapping and building fortifications. Heard of a combat engineer? The armies of various countries seem to think that construction and sapping personnel in a combat situation is a good idea as well.
    D) if passive defence can't kill the enemy, what's the point of it?

    Kick the griefers and move on. Let an accidental TK slide, and if there's a moron on your team who's simply rubbish with bombs, ask him to switch sides or class, and if he won't, then treat him as you would some other unfavourable character and start a vote.
     
    Geti, Jun 23, 2011
    #7
  8. larslolxz

    larslolxz Guest

    passive defense requires enemies to use some strategy. not simply HOLD RIGHT + JUMP + ATTACK = PROFIT
    can't jump off a mountain? get a builder to build ladders down the side. in a convoluted way, it encourages doors. if you make a wall with ladders on one side, and the enemy sets spikes on the other side, you're F***ed. with doors you don't have this problem.
    passive defense encourages teamwork, doors and strategy. otherwise you die. what's wrong with that? people usually have some sense, and should be able to work together. so why don't they? cuz they're dicks. and who then, die? the dicks. not you, if you use strategy.
     
    larslolxz, Jun 23, 2011
    #8
  9. Furai

    Furai THD Team THD Team Administrator

    Messages:
    3,124
    Possible solution to killing teammates with bombs:
    Make warning system (just like with ping warnings). Every TK would give you a warning. After reaching certain amount of warnings (which server owner will decide amount of it, I think default should be 5 warnings) servers starts automatic votekick with reason like: "Max teamkill warnings reached." And then players would decide whether to kick that player or not. If he decides to show penitence then there are chances that he won't be kicked out.
     
    Furai, Jun 23, 2011
    #9
  10. FinDude

    FinDude KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    123
    I think that knights should not be able to destroy spikes quickly. They can use their shield to land on them safely anyways.
     
    FinDude, Jun 23, 2011
    #10
  11. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    We're actually thinking of adding shield-sliding soon so maybe knights will be able to slide along the top of a row of spikes. That'd actually be a cool way to build the front door to a fort... Jump out the door, surf a line of spikes to a ladder that leads up to the front line...
    I just think spike-surfing sounds fun in it's own right tbh :P
     
    Geti, Jun 23, 2011
    #11
Mods: Hella, Lieber, ParaLogia