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Discussion/Opinion: No future for custom maps.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    I want to gauge the community's interest in an issue that's been rolling around my head lately...

    As a mapmaker (sorry if that sounds pretentious) I've been noticing a bit of a sad problem in KAG. There is no incentive for server owners to add custom maps to their servers. This is because of the little thing called the mod filter, which is set automatically to show only vanilla servers. The problem is, that something as simple as adding custom maps to your server causes it to be crated up and shipped to the Modded section. In essence, adding custom maps to your server is basically like making it invisible to a huge fraction of the KAG community.

    In short, until the way custom maps are handled by the mod filter is changed, there is no bloody point in making maps. Nobody will use them. Custom map-making in KAG is essentially a stillborn concept.

    Now for the community input part; Seeing as all of the above are my own opinions, I'd like to get some feedback on the thoughts I've shared. Do you think map-making is dead? Do you think things need to change? Or is everything fine like it is, and I'm just barking mad?
     
    Humblar_Tabulu likes this.
  2. Hella

    Hella The Nightmare of Hair Global Moderator Donator Tester

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    Nope. Map making isn't dead, you still get cool stuff; what you've highlighted here, methinks, is problems with the categorisation of maps, or some-such. A better thing to posit would be whether custom maps should be grounds for classifying a server as modded, or whether players should start with the filter turned off so they see them all.

    If map making is dead, then we need a scapegoat.
     
    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants likes this.
  3. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    Not sure what you mean by the scapegoat bit, but you do argue a fair point. To counter though, in my opinion, it seems like a private art collection. The cool things sit on the resource page, where the average KAG player will never see them. Not sure if that makes sense or not... Darn my propensity to overuse analogies. (and big words. I must be compensating for something... :ehh:)
     
    Humblar_Tabulu likes this.
  4. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    Custom Maps just shouldn't make a server count as modded. It's baffling as to why they were in the first place.

    /thread
     
    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants likes this.
  5. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

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    This isn't the first time this has come up, and I mostly agree with klok but what about crazy maps that change the way kag plays so much it should be moded? For example I once played on a map that had a dirt ceiling the whole match was sky ware fare and anyone who went on the ground got dominated from above, it was fun but more to the point it wasn't vanilla kag. I get the feeling maps like these are the reason custom maps are counted as moding
     
    giggiggiggiggig likes this.
  6. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    But then you have to ask: What is vanilla KAG? If the map adds no new items or tiles or objectives, then how is it really different from Vanilla? It doesn't alter the coding or the objectives of the game itself. It simply gives players different ways to play the game, makes the players think differently. I mean, look at the difference between the water maps and the plains maps in KAG. They don't differ in any sort of coding manner, but they elicit different responses from players.
     
    epenow likes this.
  7. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    Yep that's weird.
    I think that flagging servers as modded if there are custom maps in it keeps the vanilla ones crowded. I believe it helps to gather most of the kag players so the game feels more lively. But, anyhow, I'm not so sure about this modded servers having less visibility. You can use the vanilla filter to see or hide vanilla ones too. In that sense Classic had more possibilities, there were plenty of servers with weird, different and funny maps.
     
  8. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

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    You make a very good point
     
  9. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    Meh, I confused myself while making it, glad it was understandable ::D:
     
  10. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

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    Another thing to con sider is maps with pre built castles or tunnels, how would this effect the game and how it's played?
     
  11. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    There are already quite a few maps in vanilla KAG with premade structures, albeit ruined ones. It however would be interesting to see how players would play on a map where all defences were built for them, with no need to fortify.
     
    epenow likes this.
  12. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    If the map on a vanilla server (hypothetically assuming custom maps didn't count as modded) sucked really badly or was broken, people just wouldn't play on that server. Servers with good maps would get played and servers with bad maps wouldn't.

    Things wouldn't really change. Reliable servers like Black Death would have better maps, servers that never had players before either still wouldn't or would be really sparse.

    In any case, this has to change. This is the single greatest offense to kag online gameplay aside from the bugs. Maps should never have been changed to affect a server's modded status.
     
    epenow and Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants like this.
  13. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    I agree completely. Mind if I kidnap you and ship you to MM's house to explain this to him, while I hold a lighter and giggle insanely? ::P:
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    They dont if you don't modify the vanilla map cycle. Aus servers have had custom maps since day 1 and are both populated and counted as "vanilla".
    If you want custom maps and your server to count as vanilla, add a custom mapcycle (people often use kag/mapcycle.cfg) and point your autoconfig to that. This also prevents your map cycle getting patched each time there's an update.

    While this might seem counter intuitive, we need to be able to patch the default map cycles, so they're counted as part of the vanilla file set.

    tldr learn to host.
     
  15. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    Thanks so much. Sorry for being a pain. )=
     
  16. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    I actually know nothing about it and was just under the presumption that "new maps = modded". You make it sound so easy/obvious, is there some official guide that makes mention of this?
     
    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants likes this.
  17. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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  18. Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants

    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants Insanity Incarnate Donator

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    *hugs Geti*
    Thank you sooooooooooooo friking much. This link is so getting spammed to all the server owners I know >=3
     
  19. YouPoppedMyBalloon

    YouPoppedMyBalloon Catapult Fodder

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    Sorry if this is off-topic, I know I joined in a little late.

    I see what you're saying, however I don't think that servers in the modded section are nescassarily invisible to anyone. The vanilla filter tool is easily visible on the server list and can be toggled without having to look very far at all. Being someone who plays on both vanilla and non-vanilla servers, I feel that it is very easy for a player to discover a custom map server if it is categorized as modded. I also think you may have slightly blown out of proportion the number of players who play exclusively vanilla servers. As far as I know, the modded end of the server spectrum is pretty much just as populated as the vanilla. I respect how you feel on this subject, although I don't think its one that needs fixing. (Atleast not immediately)
     
  20. Leo

    Leo Bison Rider

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    I tried this. Server doesn't get flagged when starting but it does get flagged when a custom map loading.
    *Btw, i don't get this fear for custom maps. In all these years I am running game servers I have never seen a single game where adding non default maps would make the server non-default...
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
    Sgnt_Sneeky-Pants likes this.