Do Builders take skill?

Same, im only decent at building at best if you ignore my cata skills. Ive been on a knight binge lately though (after build phase of course).

IMO a bad builder is much worse than a bad knight or archer on your team.

 

Definitely true, either of those can't ruin the game for your team, apart from maybe a knight with a badly thrown bomb might fuck something or other up pretty badly, but a builder has the potential wreck a game with the building or destruction of one block.

I'm not a great defensive builder cos I'm quick enough at building and am not experience enough with different tower types and traps. I usually end up just making a really boring tower that's 3 stone wide, fairly high door with backstone in the middle, a title of team bridge for an archer overhang, and low and high angle archer windows. If I ever get the time I'll get an arrow shop in the nest, a quarters and a bomb shop below and might put a load of back stone behind it and somewhere to put a a catapult, but I rarely get that far. I much prefer being an aggressive builder, laddering and trying to take out the most vital parts of fortifications, and using limited resources, usually scavenged from enemy towers, to turn an enemy structure into a friendly one.

 

Skill is hard to define. I would imagine the skill ceiling on being a good builder is relatively low compared to Archer and Knight.

HOWEVER

Being a builder requires more than just skill. Being a builder requires knowledge and understanding of how each block works and they interact and all sorts of stuff like how far a knight can jump with a shield chute for building spike traps and where to build different workshops and structures. Or when to pull the Outpost back and not drag it through a narrow corridor where it will break.
And he needs to know how to apply all of the above and more to achieve his goal of getting his team an advantage or sabotaging the enemy team.

Being a good builders needs a quick mind behind it, or someone willing to learn and observe. Being a blundering idiot who never learns from the games he plays makes you a liability more so as a builder than any other class. Being a builder requires you to experiment.

In short, a builder has only a certain amount he can improve in this skill level but an extremely huge amount of potential in the strategic rationalization ability. Thats why I say the builder is the thinking class, the knight is the timing class and the archer is the asshole.

 

I remember rushing as a knight once, when I was first starting playing the game, and there were 2 other knights and one builder. We hit a building that was supported by a single block, and what does the builder do? Attacks that one block. Killed all 4 of us, and by the time we made it back there (Incarnum maps are quite large) the enemy had rebuiltt AND improved their defenses. It was then that I decided to be the best builder possible.

I would rate my builder skills as 7/10, on a rare occasion I'll hit 8/10, but my speed with building isn't always great, and until recently I rarely made workshops and catapults. (But now that I'm used to them, I fucking love making catapults!) My knight skills are average, 5/10 sometimes 6/10, my biggest weaknesses are not mastering power slashes and shield bashing, but goddamn I am good at bomb jumping. I've won so many games with just that skill, it's far too important a skill to not learn it.

My archer skills are horrible. I am more of a liability than I am an asset to my team when I go archer. If you see me going archer, now is the time to switch teams or declare game over.

 

I think builder definitely takes "skill" in the terms of it been a refined technique, making sure you place a block in the right place in difficult situations, or putting together a quick forward tower takes skill to do concisely with precision. You can easily play builder without skill and be effective though, if you perform simple repairs when they're needed, make easy but effective extensions to current structures and build workshops/catas/outposts etc. That's the best way to start learning, although even though I play pretty much 50% as builder I really suck at building quickly.

 

I need to see the works of this trathos that you speak of so highly....

Also on Zubokis list of builder levels i would deem myself as decent... but i also make sure to spend my gold on bombs/arrows for the rest of the team.

 

Of course they take, always.
In the case of most of the builders, it takes skill indeed to accidentally ruin other peoples' creations with such effectiveness, speed and ease.

Now seriously, it requires more strategy than any other class. Sure, anyone can build a wall. But anyone can waste half of the match mining and chopping trees in the back while the rest of the team fights, too. Real builders know how to build effective defenses with little resources, fast, near the action, and creatively. And, more importantly, when to move forward!

 

Builders are the most useful, and most difficult class to play.

 

Strategy, while obviously paramount in this game, isn't skill though. However building quickly an accurately is definitely a skill.

 

I disagree. I believe strategy is the application of skill and technique to solve problems, but is not required to be executed in the heat of the moment like knight duels would.

 

I think this is a difference of definition.

Lets take Startcraft 2 for example. Being able to keep your money low (IE Macro management) is a skill. What you do with that money is strategy. Although strategy is dependent on skill, strategy is not counted into skill level.

I think for this discussion it would help if we draw the line between technical skills (IE clicking really fast and accurately) and strategic skill (Building stuff).

 

Booo, what kind of question is that? Of course it does.

Although you can take this far, you can ask this for various definitions of skill, types of skill, what builder, when, in what situation.

Google tells me, though, that skill is defined as the ability to do something well; expertise.
Or Wikipedia, the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both.

I consider strategic ability a skill.

 

True, I personally like to use the word in the context of precise co-ordination, anything that requires physical technique or refined reactions. It doesn't really have any other connotations to me but that's just a personal thing obviously, I wouldn't refer to Stephen Hawkins as a skilled physicist for example.

Anyway, it's seems pretty unanimous that builders need either to be quick builders, that can get involved with combat when needed and chose the best times to siege enemy fortifications (aggressive builder) or a general tactician that develops behind the front lines. Obviously you can be good at both as I'm sure many are, but I personally like to play an attacking role whenever I play if at all possible, even though it takes me an ice age to put together the small structures you need to to be effective doing that...

 

There are things that builders do that take skill: if a builder is jumping off walls landing on people or on the front lines getting hammer kills that is clearly a skill factor. Some people, no matter how long they play, will never be able to or even attempt to do this, but I see builders all the time who can scrap when the time calls for it.

On the other hand, a builder's ability to construct useful fortifications is not "skill" in the same sense that we generally think of it, rather it is good observation and effective experience. I think that the best way to gain this type of experience is to play as the other classes: playing a lot as both an archer and a knight can improve a builder's ability to observe and replicate effective fortifications. Furthermore, you will realize that all of the rows of doors and spike traps and huge forts in your base are actually slowing down your team's progress, not helping it, and it's likely that these buildings will only become relevant if your team is badly losing anyway.

I've played in bases where it was unlikely that you would get out of it without receiving at least a heart of falling or spike damage on the way, I think if the builders constructing these bases played as a knight and tried to get out of them would realize how difficult they are making life for the rest of their team.

You will also understand the importance of a builder playing on "point," that is, a sapper-type builder who is mainly seeking to destroy enemy fortifications or construct simple ladders and bridges to help his team scale them when their team is doing well.

 

I think builder takes the most skill, but anyone who says you cant get through bedrock lied, it just takes a quick switch to knight, and a purchase of a bomb to solve that.

 

Builder takes skill : sometimes it takes only a few well placed blocks to make an enemy structure completely useless or even dangerous for it's users.

Making "stone bubbles" when assaulting for example.

Heh,I remember that once,I've blocked with 2 stone blocks a crowd of knights,who were going to pour out of the building which we were assaulting.This gave us time to get on top of the building,and hop over it to the next one,completely negating fight and going straight for catapult nest.

 

If they didn't nerf building with a charge meter then no

PS I haven't played in months.

 

I don't know about skill, but the possibilities the builder class provides are huge. I think we are not exploiting even half of it.
The builder class reaches its splendor when there is collaborative, organized design and execution. This is not what usually happens and I think is partly because the game does not provide the tools for this. Hopefully that will change in the future!

Btw, I'm not that good as a builder. I do know a couple of tricks, tho : )

 

I don't think you need skills to be a builder... its just placing blocks ive done that for two years playing Minecraft.
But you can't be a blundering idiot either.