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Does KAG require teamwork

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oblex, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. oblex

    oblex Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    14
    Does KAG require teamwork to win, so far the only advantage to teammates I see is strength in numbers and the rare case of a knight trying to form a shield ladder that no one else bothers to help. when people attack they blindly rush in not bothering to wait for team mates or assigning a plan, pushing is useless if you can't get pass a wall most people slash their way to the enemy castle and just camp there till someone comes along with a drill or keg, if they had planned it they would have gotten pass enemy defenses a lot faster. and when enemies nearly destroy a wall i ask a builder to repair it (because they have wood and stone) but they just ignore the request go knight and charge forward.
     
  2. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Reading through your post I suspect you've already answered your own question, but just so we're clear:

    Does KAG require teamwork to win? Yes.

    In fact, teamwork is so important that the deciding factor in the majority of games is how well each team works as (you guessed it) a team! The only time when teamwork is not the most important factor is when team sizes are small (generally 3 or less per team) in which case a sufficiently talented player can carry the match all by themselves (although even then a sufficiently coordinated group of players can often thwart a single skilled player).
     
  3. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    >If you have no builders, you have no defenses

    >If you have no knights, you have no sustainable offense

    >Archers are surprisingly valuable, not just for their special ammo, when played well.

    Sure one good player can push to their base, buy a keg from a badly placed shop, rek the flag room and get out.. But a coordinated effort is far more effective (battle builders placing assault towers and tunnels to claim land and give your team faster deployment, archers running harass, ninja-ing flags, rekking structures and supporting knights, etc.)

    The only way a single player really can do anything is if the match is small, or you have a poorly placed knight shop on the opposing team.
     
    Vampire likes this.
  4. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    The short answer: Yes

    The long answer:
    It depends on the level of play. If you are well above the skill level, or at the very least the care level of those you are playing against, one 'competent' player (in this sense someone who knows how most things in the game interact) can easily take on 4, 5, 10+ shit players or people who don't care.

    I would take 1 competent player over 40 minecraftingbuilders almost any day, I'd say one of the biggest reasons for this is that having another player does not always mean having another agent to do good for your team, a player can just as well do bad without even griefing. Spike pits with trap blocks, trap blocks badly placed, bases out of wood, using all the materials, drills, voting for the wrong thing (TTH), shops out in the open (keg/knight shop).

    This ability to hinder the team, which is very effective without even trying and that you will see a good deal of players do is what can make you able to do so much more.

    However, just a single secondary semicompetent person (one at least not hindering you and 'trying' to win) can make what would normally be a 1v1 between competent people with the enemy being 'better', turn into a win. If you are a knight who knows the ropes but isn't as good as another, you can beat him if you have someone else either helping you fight or taking things while you distract their competent player.

    In scenarios like this you can see how things like 1v10 become possible, and how 10v10s with mostly incompetent players are actually not 10v10s at all, or won't feel like it to most people. You can also see how competent players will easily get bored, thankfully there are quite a few competent people around, and not as many servers for them to be spread out on, so I can run into people like Trumbles here who will even out that competency and make things fun.

    The higher the skill level the more important teamwork becomes though.
     
  5. The short answer is: NO
    The long answer is still: NO
     
  6. Duplolas

    Duplolas So Sad

    Messages:
    917
    KAG used to be very team based back in the Classic days. Primarily because with Classic, knights and archers were not as mobile as they are now. A 4 block tall tower couldn't be gotten over by a knight unless you bomb jumped, and even then, bomb jumping was much more tedious.

    To progress through a map, you really needed either a builder or a lot of knights so that you could shield ladder over structures (notice how this really doesn't ever happen anymore?)

    KAG still is a team based game, though teamwork is not needed per se, ultimately if there are two evenly matched teams on the skill side, then teamwork will be the deciding factor as to who will win.
     
    Invisibility and 16th like this.
  7. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    It requires teamwork, but the plebs try to test that theory everyday.
     
  8. Frederikam

    Frederikam Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    88
    It can be quite difficult to coordinate an attack when the only communication you have is the emotion system and the chat. And usually you don't have time to chat when the enemy is about to bring a keg to your front door. Therefor voicechat is probably the best solution if you have like say a tournament or if you are simply playing with friends over Skype.
    From experience, it's a good thing to have a knight around dedicated to defending a friendly builder, well working with bringing down that enemy wall. There's a good reason why builders are almost defenceless on the battlefield compared to a knight. And while knights are powerful it's probably a good thing to have ab escort while trying to deploy a keg.

    Or say you have an enemy making a tunnel to your base and you can't both be a builder to reach the diggers and a knight to actually kill them at the same time. You'll need an actual player to help you out there.

    So yes, you do want to work together as a team rather than to blindly work alone.
     
  9. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    Mfw shooting arrows at a wall and spamming the ladder emote, and my knights just kinda... look at me funny.
     
  10. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    The short answer: It doesn't require teamwork, but players benefit from using it.

    Ta-daa.
     
    franek123, MadDog, Rubixxcube and 3 others like this.
  11. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    The greatest benefit of teamwork is that you don't lose ground when you die.
     
  12. Sir_Walter

    Sir_Walter Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    273
    It is possible for a uncoordinated team to win, but it is much easier (and more fun) to play as a team. I personally love playing "attack builder" - builder who goes to front lines, knocks down enemies forward towers, goes through doors- but if no knights support you you basically get slaughtered over and over. What I like to do know is find one player who knows what they're doing, and just coordinate with them and hope the other players won't accidentally blow up our base. Sometimes if you play on a quite populated but noobs server, a team of fifteen people can feel like an army of one.
     
  13. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I agree with BlueLuigi... Just recently I was able to get the blue team on the offensive and just when they were about to win I changed to red team and got them close to winning. I repeated the process a few more times until the match turned into a stalemate. It all depends if the players have a good understanding of the game.
     
  14. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    240
    Kag requires no teamwork. Everyone else here is completely mistaken. It's all about the K/D and the 360-no-scope slash action.
     
  15. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Actually, I've always liked @Contrary's take on teams (paraphrased here grossly, bc I have a terrible memory):
     
  16. sheek

    sheek Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    208
    Some of you are saying how people should wait for an assigned plan of attack before anything happens. I don't know what servers you guys are playing on but honestly that never happens. If half the team sits down to chat about how they are going to win the game as a team, then the opposing team would have overrun your base before you can pour each other a cup of tea.

    The only kind of teamwork that happens is rowing a god damn boat, and only because it would take forever to do with one person.
     
    Smithyman and I3lue like this.
  17. oblex

    oblex Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    14
    It doesn't take forever to make a plan all it takes is saying "getting keg need escort" or "someone get a keg/drill"
     
    Bernhardt likes this.
  18. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    Yfw enemy knights use your arrow ladder for greater efficiency than your team does.
     
  19. sheek

    sheek Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    208
    You said a lot of people blindly rush into battle without waiting for an assigned plan. From the sounds of that statement, it would take a while to tell who to do what(at least longer than necessary). If someone did try and do that, who would actually listen? There is minimal teamwork in this game because people like to do their own things.
     
    I3lue likes this.
  20. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    458
    It doesn't take any typing, or role-assigning. If people go in one-by-one, they die, and nothing gets accomplished. If people wait like ~10 seconds and attack in waves, much more gets done, and you're more likely to sustain a push long enough for your builders to place assault towers/forward tunnels, or for your archers to go get bomb/fire ammo and get in range to use it.
     
    I3lue, Frederikam and Sir_Walter like this.