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Does KAG require teamwork

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oblex, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Depends on your definition of teamwork. there is active and passive teamwork, active teamwork may not be necessary, but passive teamwork is definitely useful and usually close to necessary

    Definition of Teamwork as per Dictionary.com:
    So one person making a base (so that they may not get your flag/halls, and you may get theirs is effectively using teamwork with that knight who went out alone to attack their base.

    Everyone is using teamwork unless they are specifically working against you (griefers), or doing nothing (AFK/Beautifying), as they are not working towards the main goal (Win conditions).

    You could consider more active teamwork (archers making arrow ladders for knights), knights bringing resources back to builders, builders building ladders for knights to climb things, as teamwork as well, but I would draw that as a line between Active and Passive teamwork.

    There's also always the case of competency and just how much 'work' you are putting into 'teamwork'.
     
  2. I think KAG BETA doesn't as much require teamwork because it is so busy everything is happening you don't even realise other players are there.

    Classic KAG is more simpler and does require teamwork as you need to co-operate with your team when building making traps etc.

    Overall KAG requires teamwork, but it can also depend on your personality if you like doing things ok your own then I guess it's not very useful you feel you can just play on your own.

    If you play KAG in a helpful friendly way I would say teamwork is more your kind of thing.
     
    Smithyman likes this.
  3. sheek

    sheek Horde Gibber

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    You don't realize you're playing with other people?
     
  4. Jlordo

    Jlordo Nobody Donator

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    417
    I think he's saying it's too hectic to work together?
     
  5. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

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    653
    I think you are getting ahead of yourself, there. ("Is" does not easily translate "is ought to".)
    As far as KAG goes, it doesn't really matter if you are playing cohesively, or even cooperatively with others to win.
    (I'm sorry to say, but you can still win in many respects, including winning the round.)
    It's not that people don't/forget to realise they are playing with others, it's just that it doesn't necessarily matter.

    And yes, this can very easily translate into the hectic nature that Jlordo notes.
     
  6. Yes that's what I'm saying thanks for pointing that out I am on a broken keyboard so it is hard to type.
     
  7. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

    Messages:
    454
    It's definitely not a requirement, and with the hectic nature of the game it often gets overlooked, but teamwork does definitely increase a team's success rate.

    There's tons of ways you can actively help the team (As long as they understand what you're doing and actually go along with it)

    -A builder making a trampoline cannon or a bombjump platform in a good position, launching your knights right ontop of the enemy base/flag encasement

    -Battle builders, placing ladders up towers and blocking enemy exits while they either convert the tower to help their own team, or collapse it entirely

    -Archers placing arrow ladders, bombing flags open just as your knight wall reaches the enemy base, denying bombjumpers to protect your builders/buildings.

    -Two knights timing their slashes with eachother, effectively making it impossible to turtle against them

    -Knights bombjumping into a base in unison

    -Protecting allied battle builders

    I could go on and on. Some of these things you do without thinking, others require your allies to understand what you're doing/be communicating with you.

    While all these things aren't required, they all boost your chance of success majorly if you have a coordinated team.
     
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Is it required: not really, in public play. One good player (playing all classes as needed) will win games if they aren't countered by another good player on the other team.

    If you get a few good players into a match (eg aus peak times, any time the SHARKs are out, etc) then teamwork is required to make any real progress in the game, and to stop attmepted plays from the other team.

    That said, I dont think we've seen (and I'm sadly not sure if we will see) high competitive play in KAG with teams properly communicating with each other and executing planned movements against the other team. There's been hints of that through events like CSK but I'd honestly say they've really just scratched the surface - comp play so far has mostly come down to a bunch of good players in one spot, but playing fairly independently. Would love to see that change, since the team interactions are the most interesting part of KAG, in my eyes.
     
  9. Khaleesi

    Khaleesi Mother of Dragons Donator
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    22
    I would say that playing in a Team can make things easier, but only if everyone knows how to complement each other.

    But if you are a good skilled player, then you can achieve your goals alone, if you're smart enough.
     
  10. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

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    653
    Then make it more difficult to progress alone... maybe make stone and wood a bit harder.
    Or tile entities more resilient :vvvvvvv
     
  11. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    No matter how you do this it will not solve the problem.

    Essentially as long as being a knight you can wipe their entire line coming at you, all that is left to require more people is to have people spawn fast enough where you would not have opportunity to do other things inbetween your killing.
     
  12. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

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    653
    The most important thing, set aside having skilled or numerous bodies, is having a fortress that still stands.
    Trivializing that, then you are left with the bodies to make up for that fact, and I do believe most people know how that goes. And don't you forget that a fortress also contains factories/workshops
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  13. YouPoppedMyBalloon

    YouPoppedMyBalloon Catapult Fodder

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    23
    Just gonna throw this out there.

    In my opinion, KAG is a game in which teamwork is not a necessity, but can be extremely helpful and useful to the team. For example, it's extremely difficult to break through a teams fortifications without some form of support to the individual doing the demolition. Whether its a knight carrying a Keg, slowed down and without his/her attack animations, or a lone builder on the front lines, both of these strategies usually require support from teammates in the form of defense to carry out. One could argue that an archer with bomb arrows would be just as effective, but would also be somewhat impractical without team support when taking into consideration the distance factor between the two bases, in addition to the cost of bomb arrows. To put it into perspective, if one were to take KAG and remove all aspects of teamwork from it, the game would basically be a broken one. Builders would be rendered completely useless by how impractical building a fortress without allies to defend it is, Archers wouldn't be able to do anything except hide in trees without getting killed by a knight, and lastly, most games would end in a moshpit of Knights killing eachother repeatedly. Teams were implimented into KAG by the developers and they were implimented for a reason. Without teams, the game wouldn't be what it is. In conclusion, since the only game modes released so far have been team game modes, with class dependence as it is now, the way I see it is that teamwork is not a necessity to the game, but will only serve to strengthen a teams productivity and capability, and is intended, as far as I know, to be used to the best of ones ability.
     
    Smithyman and Sir_Walter like this.
  14. sheek

    sheek Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    208
    Didn't really feel like reading your essay but I assume everything you stated has already been said (why I didn't read it).
     
  15. YouPoppedMyBalloon

    YouPoppedMyBalloon Catapult Fodder

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    You're probably right. Oh well. Maybe someone will take time out of their day to read. :]
     
  16. sheek

    sheek Horde Gibber

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    208
    Apparently Sir_Walter did...or maybe he was just being nice:X3:
     
    YouPoppedMyBalloon likes this.
  17. Sir_Walter

    Sir_Walter Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

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    273
    no I did- it was actually quite intelligent
    for a summary look at my post in this thread (not the examples)
     
    YouPoppedMyBalloon likes this.
  18. Alpaca

    Alpaca Base Burner

    Messages:
    462
    Anyone who thinks that teamwork is neither useful, required, nor present in KAG has clearly never played in a clan war, or otherwise competitive match. In competitive games between higher skilled players, moving as a team is pretty much the majority of the game, and having a single player off of mumble or dc from the server can turn the tide of the match against you.

    As for pub games, communicating isn't really a first priority for a lot of the lower skilled players, though I dare say there has been a slight improvement in that there are a lot less people who think that the game is only about what they want. However, players who actually know what they're doing can and will communicate with each other if they are losing a game and need to employ some tactics other than straight pushing, or if they are at a stalemate. I never see people communicate when they are stomping a worse team than them, regardless of how experienced they may be, because if you're already winning, it really isn't required.

    In addition, I've scene some weird things cropping up around the forums, and though this may not directly pertain to the OP, I've scene these in multiple arguments people have made in this thread, so I would like to make a public service announcement to clear up some of the evident confusion:
    Bombjumping is not better in any way in beta than it was in alpha. Perhaps it could possibly give you slightly more height in some instances, but other than that bombjumping in alpha was blatantly superior. Alpha bombjumps went up to three times as far, and if you had a high enough tower you could pretty much jump across the entire map. I know that no one has directly said that bombjumps are better in beta, but when you say "blah blah blah blah, because of bombjumps, especially in BETA" it heavily implies that you think they're better in beta than they were in alpha. They aren't. Stop implying it.

    Also, you could indeed clear a four block high wall as a knight in alpha. Learn to fucking slash jump you absolute scrubs. Scrubs. SCRUBS. It's one thing not to know how to slash jump in beta, but in alpha? Are you kidding me? An open letter to anyone who wrote anything about not being able to clear 4 high walls in alpha (and I've scene multiple people write this):

    Dear Sir or Madam,
    You clearly don't know how to play alpha, so please, stop trying to write about it as support for your arguments. And don't give me that "Of course I know how to slash jump" bullshit, because if you do, why do you keep fucking writing that you can't clear 4 block high walls? And don't try to dodge and say that you were talking about archers either, because, even assuming that there were no blocks to vault off or trees to climb, you clearly said "knights and archers," which includes knights, who can fucking slash jump. ffs.
    With love,
    Alpaca.
     
    Invisibility and Smithyman like this.
  19. Smithyman

    Smithyman Bison Rider

    Messages:
    50
    omg i haaate it when nubs complain about alpha especially about slash jumping i absolutely love ur PSA spoiler coz it literally says whats on my mind
     
  20. BaconLover

    BaconLover Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    17
    It requires teamwork, but the teamwork of this game is just... Not there on the majority of the cases since it released on Steam.
    People are playing like with NPCs not other players, and don't even chat, just randomly do things, so the game lost a piece of its point with the teamwork in such dark ages.