Downburst's Recommended Banlist of Ne'er-Do-Wells

Oh look I missed something. Wow, I am a popular outlaw now? Time to form a conspiracy to bring down the world of Kag under the order.

Let's think of a name for this one. A ha! I got it at the tip of my creative side! The new Spool order or NSO.

Beware the Spooloonimati. Although let's face the facts, you caught me red handed, a red-handed vigilante just waiting for a moment like this.

Heh, I've never had a drop of alcohol as I prefer to keep my health in good condition. I at least can finally put my arms around your shoulders and have some good laughs with you. On the side note, things like that happen when I decide to be my alter ego being the devil. Personally I find griefing a waste of time and even so, I cease to grief ever since I had to monitor a server for Paingiver a long with other admins. Also, Blueluigi, between you me and Hoj, we had a lot of shitstorms which are classified A-hilarious, while other times it's just you and me being total racist jerk offs but that's the past....but not really

Honestly, if people truly vilify me and mark me as the devil. I'm more likely to buy myself a comfortable throne to sit on and watch this "blacklist" exclude the names of those who assisted my demise by the same deeds... or worst which would most likely be a lot of people ( No names ), but I'll never spew the beans of condemnation knowing that my honor truly resides into respecting these fiends to prove a point.

 

Bad idea. Really. I know a griefer/hacker need to be banned from the server where he did that but to be banned from all servers listed here, this is shit. All people can have another opportunity to don't be a griefer/hacker on another server.

 

I don't see how there's so much controversy about this. There is no hidden agenda and Downburst made the (very reasonable) requirements of people on this list very clear. These aren't just one off mistake type of deals, being a multiple time offender mean you show a clear disposition to grief in the future.

Everyone I've met who is on this list is a huge annoyance and it's really just common sense to compile a list of known griefers and trolls, especially considering how our very lenient ban times hardly do anything. These people have been given second chances, and have taken those chances to shit on other people's day for their own personal enjoyment. I'm not a dictator; if you've seen me deal with griefers in game you'll know I almost always give people multiple chances before kicking them, but at a certain point it's just not worth the time anymore.

I hope every server uses this list in full.

 

So let me get this straight now...you make a black-list to make sure that you can ban griefers from servers. I have one basic question after reading about this; since you've made this black-list this sort of replaces guards and admins? How many games have we seen where idiots get away scott free? Exactly, You are a guard or mod to complete a task; you are not a guard or mod to make something to do it for you. So now we have to watch our back just from people who don't like us. And since guards and admins have logs on information about people, regular users are at a huge disadvantage to defend themselves.

 

Now that I think about it, this whole list thing does override the previous rules and conditions officially announced by the Kag community. Oh shucks, I guess guards are useless after all, since we have monsieur Adolf being the puppet dictator of Kag. ;)

Well let's get straight to the point here, if anyone here can build lists and create their rules and persuade the entire community to use it, and let's say the community does succumb to this. Perhaps since it's in the general discussion rather than the suggestion box, we can call it a movement or a rebellious idea to take rules into one's hands. Usually society would steer it's residents away from such mentality, but this list isn't under control of the developers.

However, since you insist of being proud of being a semi-dictator, we should name that list the big brother. (Nazi-Germany standard)

 

I know this but the problem isn't if the list have only reasonable ban. It's about you are removing all chance to hacker/griefer to play normally in another server without doing shit. Let's people have another try before banning them from alot of servers.

The thread to report hacker/griefer is not here or nothing. If the guy don't respect the rules alot of times and not only in the same server, now you can ban him from all servers. I don't think Downburst can decide for everyone, who is banned/who is not (even if it's a KAG Guard and bans he did are ''reasonable'').

 

Downburst is a great moderator. I have no doubt the people on this list have caused problems before, and they should be dealt with accordingly. But my humble opinion is they should be dealt with through the official system already in place.

If a player is problematic enough to be on this unofficial list, and the list is proven and legitimate, reason would suggest they would already be on the official global ban list, or at the very least working his/her way towards it.

If the official process is not working or lacking in some area, it might be a good time to seriously redefine or clarify what constitutes a global ban, so that lists like this would be unnecessary.

My only question is why is an unofficial list like this necessary? Is there a technical aspect I'm not understanding or savvy with? (you mentioned account banning was not enough.)

 

Unofficial list so that server owners will be able to input these names into their own server's blacklists if they so choose. Currently if you are banned from a single server you can just hop scotch into another server and continue a tirade of griefing.

Everyone knows we can't monitor everyone 24/7 but Downburst decided to post a compilation of individuals who have been reported on multiple occasions in order for server owners to have the information upfront about questionable individuals. It will be up to the server owner's discretion if they will want to implement the list.

 

This is outrageous, a list of people banned from servers for griefing some times? This is not how a ban system is supposed to work. One is banned for griefing on a server, you can make it permanent, but releasing a list like this to make people banned even on servers where they never commited a grief or something else which is not according to the rules?!

I just can't comprehend the level of unfairness of stuff like this! There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to start! And even published by a guard! This is unbelievable!

 

It is unfair because he has released this list. These people are banned on certain servers, but that does not give him the right to get them banned on every server of which the server owner decides to use the list. People should be banned for something that they are doing wrong, not something they have done wrong somewhere else, at some other moment, witnessed by someone else.

It would be like someone gets denies acces to a club in Amsterdam because he was in a riot in Rome. He should be denies access to the club for doing something wrong there and against the terms of that club.

The same goes for different servers.

EDIT: Then again, this is just my opinion. If the KAG team or moderators believe this to be right, so be it, I don't grief. It's just that actions like this are against every principle of a fair punishment system.

EDIT2: Even if this would be a ''good'' list (which is in my opinion, as I have explained, not possible), there should have been some kind of public voting pool or a discussion before the release! It is unbelievable that this list gets thrown on here without any kind of duscussion with the users (maybe not even with other guards or maybe even without discussion with the KAG team) and free for use immediatly. Some servers might have already started using it now and so it is too late to turn this back in the case of this being a totally wrong choice (which it is).

 

You're free to your opinions, but it'd be appreciated if you didn't voice them so radically. Such behavior quickly removes any hope of diplomacy.

Not really! Your metaphor doesn't hold water when there's suddenly an airport that can take you anywhere in the world, instantly. In KAG, that is the server browser. There's no time between rioting in Rome and being in Amsterdam, and maybe you aren't quite done rioting yet; what's to stop you from being caught before the fact if what happens in Rome, stays in Rome? I agree that preventative measures can be extremely stifling when used liberally, but you're blowing this way out of proportion. Nobody is being forced to use this, or even asked; it's a public resource for those who'd rather not have perceived troublemakers on their server. If they want to use it, that's their choice, and absolutely nothing happens until they do. You really don't seem to understand the concept of bans; if everything was on a case by case basis, people would be able to grief on every given server and cause much, much more trouble than if they had just been denied access to them in the first place.

Besides, you act like the names on this blacklist are carved in stone. Errors are sure to be made, and if Downburst has any dedication to this project, he will correct them. Even if he doesn't decide to budge at all, server owners can edit it too. All it would take to get you off the list individually is talking to the server owners, which is pretty trivial with the forums as active as they are. If this works well, it will be supported well. If it doesn't, nobody will use it. Nothing worth getting riled up over.

 

Firstly, I would really like a reply to my EDIT2 in my previous post. I find it a very important objection.

Furthermore, It wouldn't surprise me if server owners would just start using this list because of either laziness or too much trust in one man's judgement on these people instead of actually trying to know themselves why one should be banned.
Even that example of Spoolooni (yes I am bringing it up); he was warned 3 times in 3 months. That is once a month, and that is enough to get him banned on every server that uses this list?

And I know these names aren't ''carved in stone'' and that it is possible to have your name deleted from the list. And then what? Downburst will have to upload the new list after every edit, the server owners will have to download every one and use them in the server. And yes, that has to happen, because some of these unfair banned people might have paid and if they're not able to play, it's almost stealing. So yea, hey, this seems like a great system! Much better than having the server owners and their server admins put some effort into doing fair bans. Much better than having them judge themselves whether one should be banned or not.

There is good reason why these ''universal banlists'' are banned in most games (even minecraft) and it should be banned here as well.

And a little side note; I am not trying to be a pain in the butt here, but I do find this unfair and unbelievable. Those words were honoust and should not remove hopes of diplomacy. A word like unbelievable is a legit word and I used it as it should be; an expression of how I feel about this.

 

I, for one, think this is a great idea, and that downburst needs to be given a medal for trying to help the community. Everyone has their own opinion on this blacklist, and thats fine, but if admins want to use it, you have no right to force them not to.
They can think for themselves, so they don't need to ask the members of KAG if they should use it. If you don't like it, then don't use it.

I find this list quite fair, if you are a girefer or hacker and have done so so many times, you deserved to be banned universally, since they are not welcome here.

On the debate of spoolooni, i think he isnt a very bad person, he may have griefed once or twice, but thats my opinion, not downburst's.

Either way, there are some people i would like to see added, though i don't think it would be fair to ban every useless builder and nazist now would it?

 

I'd type up a big post, but this thread doesn't need to be a catalyst for our egos.

I understand where you're coming from, but isn't your pessimism early? Spolooni is the only person on this list I would have recognized at a glance, and though he's not even on it anymore, he has openly admitted that he used-I hope "used" is appropriate-- to collapse his team's skybridges because he just didn't like them to be used. I think that justification enough, but if he's cleaned up his act, there's no problem, and the moderation system set in place is working as intended. Everybody else on this list are speedhackers, loudmouths or griefers, many of which have been publicly and privately reported, then given a woefully limpwristed global ban that failed to discourage them at all.

It's not fair that people come in and grief their team, so if an accidental, indiscriminate blacklisting happens occasionally-and is promptly corrected--, I think Downburst's idea is pretty acceptable. Anywho, beyond convincing Downburst to take this list down or the server owners to not use it, arguing won't accomplish much.

 

I never say Downburst is not a good moderator. I just try to told you it's not fun for the hacker/griefer to be listed on a list to do shit in one server.

It's the utility of a forum. Speak about your opinions. You did the same, you convincing people to make understand your idea about this list is a good thing.