General Knight Changes

I know dat... But he could ask a dude who can do it!

 

dear bobotype

Spoiler

 

So in that case, if they are the class that can deal damage at range, they are playing a ranged role. You said yourself, nobody is saying the Archer isn't a ranged class. And the Archer can cause damage at range. That means, definitively, that the Archer plays a ranged role. The thing is, they suck at it. They're countered by an invulnerable Shield on the class they encounter most often.

Spoiler

Good point. Still, Archers' most basic attack isn't free, that's my point. It's already a limited commodity. Scrounging arrows=time not attacking. "Burning coins" seems to be a bit of a double standard if no other classes have to do that just to function.

Not if your tower has an overhang, which is generally accepted as a standard in any tower construction. Then you have to grapple to its underneath to shoot at the Knight, and unless you've got a tall tower then that means you're just a dangling treat for the Knight to slash.

Geti if you don't want to discuss it that's fine, but I will stand by my point that the Builder is the support class. I hope that other people don't continue to try and push the "Archer is Support" line. Archer is not a Support but a class that Needs support to do damage to Shields. The only reason I ever was arguing the "support" topic was because other people were making the claim that Archer didn't need changing "because it's a Support", so everyone heed Geti's words on that one: It's entirely irrelevant, tiresome and unproductive.

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But your point was originally that pub knights would jab more, meaning that they would be easier to hit. So, which one is easier to hit? Slashers or jabspammers?

My proposition isn't a brief window-related thing which would be raped by latency. Rather, there is always an area to the left or right of the Shielded Knight that is vulnerable and can be aimed for, rather than being blanket covered. With a well aimed Trishot you're guaranteed to hit at least one part of the Knight. If you're against "randomness" then why the RNG deviation that Legolas Shots are currently prone to?

Flag capping also requires special arrows to break through defences, so that isn't a reliable gold source. Damage isn't viable in a "support" role because Knights kill each other instantly. Picking up a Water Arrow? I see people kill Sharks more than I see Archers in the field, carrying a Water Arrow for a Knight reach+kill them before they use it. Multiclassing shouldn't be a prerequisite, you don't have to change to Archer to be able to play Knight, or to Knight to be able to play Builder, so rule that out too. Vehicles are not a reliable source of income either.

You know, like they don't? because you're shooting, rather than the Knight, a Shield proofed to everything ranged except Water Arrows.

Spoiler

You're having a blast playing Archer? Cool! Lovely! Please, tell me more! I'm glad you find so much fun playing "support", that's great.
Stop saying "we". You, personally, are not the majority. About 10 other people have agreed with you. 10 people out of the entire KAG community. When I enter games, I see Archers as maybe 20% of the players. That says more to me about what the community thinks needs to be changed than anything you say with your little 10-person "we".
For someone talking about "misconceptions", you're full of a lot of bullshit. You don't know anything about my willingness to learn Archer. Just because I haven't reached the highest skill possible with the class doesn't mean I don't get a say, because by your own admission you've only played "~15 hours", so how do you get to tell me I'm wrong because I haven't played Archer enough? When it comes to the facts, it doesn't matter anyway, even if you can't see your own glaring hypocrisy. And don't you dare fucking tell me I'm not using facts when most of your posts have been "you suck at archer lolllll" or "back in this game I played blah blah".

This one quote here precisely sums up how much bullshit you are full of. I try to cite the facts of why the Archer's toolset is weaker, not how the Archer should be played, and you and a select group of others' main point is either "you're playing it wrong CQC more" or "play archer support noob". I'm talking about the skills the Archer has at its disposal, not the way it should be played, and you were one of the original people to bring up the way it's played in the first place.
Finally, you are not the majority, and 10 people out of a player base of upwards of 1000 does not constitute a "majority", so shut that the fuck up.

Sorry to anyone reading this rant but I have rarely heard bullshit as unfiltered as @Auburn's.
Also, he's still off topic. Not one part of his post mentioned anything about the ideas' pros or cons at all.

 

You're right, I actually have addressed some of the concerns you have here already (you clearly didn't read), so I'll only address the reasons you provided that haven't been said, and you can read the post directly preceding me for the ones I did answer.

Hell, it isn't "constantly move". You make it sound a lot harder than it is. Archer above you? Move your Shield up to cover your head.

I'd like to know where I said that. If I did say that, I apologise, otherwise don't put words in my mouth.

Two things here. One, the Knight has 4 hearts of Health (4), (four). An Arrow deals one Heart. The highest burst the Archer can do is 3 Hearts, which leaves the Knight alive to continue on his merry way and eat a Burger or something. The Knight decides when his Bomb is out, thus the Archer essentially has to have a Legolas Shot ready for the Knight, and the Knight can simply out-wait the Legolas Shot and then use his Bomb.
Also, the Knight could just, you know, learn to dodge Arrows? Seeing as they have a much nerfed range and speed from classic and are entirely dodgeable?

That Archer doesn't have some magic instakill ability like the Knight. A Knight lighting and throwing a Bomb would be entirely possible to do without taking any damage at all by hammering Spacebar twice, or at the very least take 1 damage tops. Oh no, now I only have 3 Hearts.
Everything in the spoiler is @Auburn's usual off-topic, stale stuff -- "Archers are played more than Knights and Builders" is an interesting claim, though.

Spoiler

Well that's why I'm changing the suggestions, which you'd be able to see except you seem to be incapable of reading, so they can reach a format which he likes. All of this bullshit from you, trying to discredit me or tell stories, is doing a great job of getting in the way of that, though.

You see 60% of your team as Archers? This is why I call bullshit on you. In fact, it definitely rarely reaches 40% either. I didn't just "recently join" anything except the forums, m8. To say that you see 60% of a team as Archers? That implies that Archer is played more frequently than Knights AND Builders, are you really, seriously going to stand by that claim?

And I'm saying you're calling the few people who see and post on this particular thread, in this particular forum of the game, a "majority". You don't come to the forums to have majority rule by a bandwagon of 10 people who hate change squash your ideas, you come here to present ideas and have them criticized. It doesn't work as in we 10 people don't like your ideas, therefore shut up. You are here to dispute the ideas, and instead you're cluttering up the thread like fuck.
I know it's not much of a figure to present, but once again you're lying; I have had a few likes to my posts, and I have had people agree with me, although not yet with the entirety of my post. The whole forum isn't against me, as you're insinuating. It would definitely be a lot easier to get likes if people could read my ideas instead of having to wade through your irrelevant bullshit.

I'm not suggesting an instakill Knife or longer range, you fucking moron. I'm suggesting new things. I don't dismiss those previous things, I take them into account and have said that repeatedly. And you also ignored my criticism, again: You can't tell me haven't played Archer enough to "know" the class. By your own admission, you've only played roughly 15 hours of it yourself. You are in no position to play expert even if skill was more important than facts, which it is not. I've also explained before sufficiently that you citing this game one time where you stomped as an Archer isn't admissible. It's an anecdote. Fuck, those Knights may have had a cat sitting on their RMB for all I know. However, once again you're proving you are incapable of listening, and only of muddying the waters. And obviously you don't know how well I know to play the game, so why are you even bringing it up?

I've brought up lots of facts, which you have systematically ignored. You're the one who brought up playstyle in the first place. Are you actually illiterate?
And the "majority" thing? Just because I don't speak for everything, doesn't mean you can silence me. I'm not trying to speak for EVERYONE, unlike you, because I know it's impossible. Neither of us do. Stop trying to turn my argument on me. I'm speaking singular, you're saying "we", as if you speak for some unknown fucking hivemind.
I'm not claiming to be the majority you FUCKING TWAT. YOU ARE. WHEN YOU ARE SAYING "WE DON'T LIKE x WE DON'T LIKE y", YOU ARE CLAIMING TO BE A MAJORITY.

 

guys, unnamed player looked into it and the player bobotype has never actually played beta, hes litterally just fucking with everyone here. no more comments are needed towards him seeing as how hes actually never played the game or even owns it for that matter.

 

Spoiler: bobotype in this thread

 

No, that's cool. As long as I can quote you when people say "no uhhhhh archer fine done change it cuz its support", I'm happy.

No I definitely don't. Never asked for 'em. I think that even more limited, but more useful standard Arrows are the way to go, because the original topic was you saying something along the lines of "with powerful standard Arrows, Archers will spam them all day without burning coin".

Well all I see them do is Shield, charge doubleslashes while dodging, and Shield, bringing down the Knight quick enough to not make you a threat or dying straight up. Also, you're bringing up the "support" thing again. It's not Archer doing the support, it's Archer who needs support. The Knight can take anyone on 1v1, you can't, you need his support.

What myriad ways? Myriad means "countless or extremely great in number". Anything that doesn't involve Gold?

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But Knights don't have to aim their Shield carefully, because the hitbox is non-literal. I thought "careful aim" wasn't a factor due to latency issues. Which is it?

Archers cannot kill a Knight at range, if the Knight knows they are there, without Water Arrows. This is a fact. Even if the Knight is unaware of their presence, and you unload a full legolas shot into him while his guard is down, up goes the Shield.

Spoiler

It's true Geti. On these threads, out of about 15 people viewing, 2 or 3 have supported parts of my posts maximum. Of course, this says nothing about the community as a whole. It isn't about exhorting other people to come and support them, because I see nobody asking anybody else to do the same just because their idea isn't popular with 10 people viewing it in the relevant thread.

Geti, when I'm replying to 5 posts at once, obviously it's going to be a big reply. Believe it or not, I've been continuously asking for on-topic posts and instead getting replies such as "you should kill yourself" and large reaction images. I'm pretty sure an intelligent individual such as yourself would realise the wading is caused from having to reply to so much irrelevant shit, which is why I'm spoilering offtopic stuff that doesn't really belong in either PM or here.
I would also like to make the point that @Auburn and @Arcrave began the trend of swearing/flaming, and I saw them recieve no warnings. Looked like it was par for the course in order to keep up.
Also, Geti tried to view my Steam. I feel loved <3

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2014, Original Post Date: May 4, 2014 ---

Yes Yagger, I'm sure it's 80 to 1 and not 10 to 1 with partial support. Quality post!

Thank you for your much more useful post this time around :) I'm happy when people talk facts.
40% is not "common" for me, and I think even the suggestion it's 40% implies that it's a more powerful class than both the Knight and Builder.

You're assuming there's only one Knight in that case. Knight can Shield up faster than even a half arrow can charge up, and if he's further away a half arrow or quarter arrow might not reach him either.

Heaven forbid an Archer could defend themselves from a guaranteed explosion coming their way. The "move" suggestion also applies to Knights cooking Bombs so as to avoid Arrows. The game would be balanced, but Archers relying on Knights to deal damage means they aren't a useful choice if there aren't Knights. Builder+Archer team will likely lose to Builder+Knight team with no Knights to "support" [read use as distractions to get in hits]. That's imbalance. Therefore it couldn't hurt to buff Archer; then other players will pick Archer as a counterpick and we have balance.

So that's not everything, then. That still allows the Knight to drop what he's doing and be invulnerable to arrows.
You're right that it should be one or the other though, rather than both. Either Shield hitboxes should be literal or Shield should drop while carrying stuff.

 

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I've been thinking about the support thing.
And I think that knights and archers support each other. An archer and a knight work together better than two knights or two archers.
Knights and archers are a team, I think that is the best way to put it.

 

Knight doesn't need support for any of his functions. He can do combat, mobility, and low level terrain destruction without any help at all. When a Builder supports him, he can go where he pleases and bomb people erryday. Archer needs support to get hits on an enemy Knight at range. That's a very one-sided partnership. Anyway, Geti said that discussion is a non-issue unless we're talking roles classes fill.

 

Bro. Knights can't really do much destruction anymore. Bombs were nerfed to the point it cant do shit to terrain.. only to buildings... which is nice... wont have massive holes in the ground. :I

 

I know that, I read the build bro. Buildings are what's important though, you're trying to go through them horizontally, not down into the dirt. And even without Bombs, Knights can still slash anything not made of Stone or Bedrock.
I really like the new build though. It might even address the suggestions here, seeing as the Shield angle has changed to 130.

 

Your point...?

 

My point is that your point is wrong. You said "Knights can't really do much destruction anymore". That's bull, they can still damage buildings, which is what matters, because objectives are protected by stone walls, not dirt.